Hello all,
Excuse me for the length of this email. I am responding to each of the
following separate topics that are associated with recycling computers
using Linux. The email's contents are as follows:
1) respecting licensing terms
2) CLUG visits C.R.S.
3) Chicken and Egg
4) Aaron's support comments
5) Installfests
6) Creating CLUG projects
7) Group Agendas
8) Group Expectations
9) Deciding on CLUG plans
On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
Re: 1) respecting licensing terms
>> Some of the technicians have told me off the record that when a copy
>> isn't available, they do re-install the same version of Windows,
>> realizing that they are breaking the license terms.
> if such things go on, it really ought to be reported. respecting the
> licensing terms of others is important if we wish our own licensing
> terms to be similarly respected.
The statement about re-installing the same version of Windows was "off the
record" and something they (the C.R.S.) wouldn't admit publicly. I
understand that they also install it in a bind and don't make it a part of
standard procedure. I don't want to make excuses for them. They are always
looking for donated copies of Windows.
Out of curiosity, how would one prove it?, how do you report it?, and who
would enforce any license agreement with Windows or Linux? Also, why would
we ever want to do this if we want their help? And if things work out in
the long term, it should not be an issue if Linux is running on the
systems.
Re: 2) CLUG visits C.R.S.
>> None of them have used Linux but
>> they sure have heard about it. I stopped encouraging them to visit CLUG
>> once I realized how swamped they were.
> sounds counterproductive. have they considered having some CLUG people
> visit them instead? have a coffee in their shop and talk about their
> goals and needs?
FYI, I did go down to visit at the C.R.S warehouse to meet the C.R.S.
liaison director with other representatives from CUUG to chat about Linux
and recycling computers. There was interest but also concern as to how
their own technicians and future used computer recipients would be
supported or taught Linux. I think they were realizing that free software
doesn't necessarily mean they will get free support. There was nothing I
could say about existing Linux seminars in Calgary. I could only tell them
about the eventual online resources they would get after setting up their
internet connection. Also, their technicians are only available during
working hours, making it difficult for most in CLUG to show up.
Re: 3) Chicken and Egg
>>> Does are target "market" want to "learn Linux", or
>>> just get some tasks done?
>> This is a chicken and egg question.
> i don't follow you, where's the chicken/egg?
Firstly, my apologies for any confusion. So, from the newbie's point
of view, which comes first: "learning Linux" or "just get some tasks
done?" Well, neither, you have to do both to see if you can do both. How
can I find out how to learn Linux to get certain tasks done or how can I
just get some tasks done so I can learn Linux? Seminars, I think could
enable anyone to do both "learning Linux" and "just get some tasks done."
Eventually, seminars would facilitate the promotion of Linux to any
"market" we decide on pursuing. Why not help the societies the C.R.S.
helps?
Re: 4) Aaron's support comments
> if properly set up, the support required should be minimal to say the
> least. in fact, a simple set of "cheat sheets" would probably be more
> than enough for those with basic computer literacy, and an hour or two
> walk-through for those who don't or would prefer the confidence booster.
> past that i see a vibrant email list here, and a silly amount of online
> resources elsewhere.
AND:
> first off, while our seminars have been lagging, i don't know how much
> trouble we had in organizing the last few installfests or other such
> events.
I don't think it would be fair on Aaron or anyone to do a large chunk of
the work that he has already put into the seminars with Dave Bourassa's
group or at his monthly presentation on "Compiling from source (April 3/02
meeting)." Some of the trouble is due to a location no longer being
available for these seminars (sorry Dave if I am mentioning this out of
turn). However, I have received some pledges/commitments from some of the
more experienced members in the group to facilitate the creation of
"workshops" for newbies. Simple sets of "cheat sheets" would be
appreciated from anyone. Remember, we still need a new seminar location.
Re: 5) Installfests
Relating to installfests, I have been trying to get information from past
coordinators on creating an installfest but have been faced with many "I
don't knows." What I do know is that the issues to overcome are finding a
location that meets power and space requirements and overcoming a $2M
liability insurance if the installfest is at a shopping mall. I called
several shopping malls because that way the installfest could attract and
accommodate a potentially large public.
Re: 6) Creating CLUG projects
> CLUG creates its own projects by someone stepping up and doing it. CLUG
> isn't a faceless machine of energy, it is a name beneath which those who
> can and desire to can do things.
Well, as you can see I've also been busy, so I understand this statement
very well. "stepping up and doing it" is the easy part. As you can
appreciate, the hard part is getting commitments from all concerned,
mainly because (from my experience) there are time constraints and
conflicting agendas.
Re: 7) Group Agendas
> secondly, if they want help, they should perhaps think about making
> their needs known and extend offers for US to join THEM in THEIR efforts
> since such things are THEIR specialty rather than expecting US to do so.
The one agenda that brought the following groups together: CLUG, CUUG, and
C.R.S. was that we were all interested in furthering computer education by
using each groups separate agendas, being: CLUG: promoting the use of
Linux; CUUG: promoting the use of networks (including LTSP); C.R.S.:
solving software issues to reuse more computers and help more societies.
Re: 8) Group Expectations
> it seems that there is a poor expectation here involving each group to
> do what the other things are THEIR specialty rather than expecting US to
> do so. it seems that there is a poor expectation here involving each
> group to do what the other specializes in: we have people who know about
> computers and care about such things, they have the programs and ability
> to engage them in place.
The C.R.S are organizing many events for the community, some of which I've
suggested CLUG could use as a means to train C.R.S. technicians on Linux.
One such event is a swapfest, where you can trade your older computer
peripheral for a newer one - at a nominal cost (say: $1-$5). A problem
occurs with getting the necessary C.R.S. volunteers to organize this event
and the CLUG volunteers who would be willing to teach. Well, guess what?
The C.R.S. also has its own problems locating their own volunteers to
organize their event. On the other hand, the C.R.S. would gladly send some
volunteers to our next installfest. All we have to do is tell them our
event date and location.
Re: 9) Deciding on CLUG plans
Here's a real chicken and egg situation: which group is going to create
the first event and invite the other group? Maybe then we can see if both
groups can work with each other on more events. As it stands, I am still
looking for ways to create a CLUG event to get everyone involved from
CLUG and the C.R.S.
So what's it going to be: installfest and/or newbie workshops?
Peter Williams
Subcommittee coordinator for CLUG recycled computers
CLUG Membership #02L02203
CLUG email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
