Again, sarcasm and flame when presented with realistic represenation of the discussion...
-----Original Message-----
From: S�bastien Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 4:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?
Andrew, please setup a forum somewhere and continue the debate there. That
way 59 people will be better off.
Le 9 D�cembre 2002 16:09, vous avez �crit :
> Let's consider your math...
>
> 1) Only ~10 people respond, of what I'm told is a member list of ~60. 10 /
> 60 = 1/6th of population.
>
> 2) None of those who don't support the forum idea have given any reputable
> rebutal to issues raised - it amounts to "I'd have to login...", or "I'm
> quite comfortable just using email". Personal preference from people who
> have little if any experience with forums...
>
> This indicates neither majority nor full consideration of topic at hand.
>
> Am I trying to sell you/CLUG a forum? This wasn't my idea in the first
> place - I carried it over from the meeting this past Wednesday. Heck, the
> forum I mentioned was phpBB - a free forum. More likely the question is
> 'Are you sure you just aren't afraid of change' or at least adding
> something to the mix that could be just as productive as the mailing list?
> Because all I see is me supporting the idea of having a forum while getting
> flamed by fearmongers and the occasional troll.
>
> Fractioning the group? If there's only ~10 active people, I hardly call it
> CLUG. Nevermind that most new people aren't familiar with mailing lists,
> but forums are easier to understand...
>
> I see you miss the point of the web app - the user base is increasing, and
> they aren't getting smarter. Revolt all you want against it in your self
> righteous fashion, but at least understand why the world will pass you by.
>
> I'm fighting because no rebutal of quality has been given, and I see one or
> two in support with a tag line of "please don't flame me". Maybe you
> should consider why they'd say that rather then ask me to stop because you
> have nothing to offer.
>
> Thank you for coming out - little more prep on your part next time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse Kline [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 9:46 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?
>
> Quoting Andrew Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I've seen responses from roughly 7 other people - I hardly consider that
> > a consensus.
>
> Well at least someones keeping count. There has not been a vote on the
> issue so
> sure I cannot give you any numbers, what I can say is that most people
> posting
> on this thread have said that it is a bad idea or that they will not use
> it. People posting to this thread make up a good portion of the posts to
> this list.
> Conclusion: people are not going to use it.
>
> > Secondly, there is no proof that a question takes longer to answer on a
> > forum - NONE. Pardon, but I'm getting irritated with responding to the
> > same
> > comment that has no basis in fact much less experience.
>
> Sure here's an example: 1) I'll check my e-mail to see if there are any
> messages
> from CLUG Talk/family/friends. Oh look someone needs help, and I know the
> answer. 2) Hey maybe I'll head over to calgary.linux.ca and see if there
> are any
> new posts on the forum. I guess while I have my web browser loaded I might
> as
> well look at porn instead. An hour later: screw the forum, if they want
> something they can post to the list.
> And yes, I have already read 5 or 6 e-mails from you today defending
> forums. Are
> you trying to sell us a forum or something?
>
> > Third, how does increasing the viewability and functionality of a support
> > communication take away from helping? Most visibility == more exposure;
> > More exposure == more people helping...
>
> It's not about increasing viewability, it's about adding another way to
> communicate, and we don't need another way to communicate because it will
> just
> fraction the group and it will be that much harder to get any support at
> all.
>
> > Fourth, I want to read a topic but I'd like it organized rather then
>
> helter
>
> > skelter in my email folder. Filters don't tell me what's worth reading
>
> and
>
> > what isn't - I do.
>
> I don't even use filters. If you don't want to read something there is a
> handy
> little delete button on your keyboard.
>
> > Fifth, sticking to email solely because you have used it in the past is
> > no legitimate response either. I've been away until now so I couldn't
> > reply to
> > what is claimed to be "benefits" of email.
>
> Not because I have used it in the past. Because it was designed for a
> certain
> purpose. And it does what it is supposed to do very well, and it's a
> standard.
> Putting things on the web does not improve them, in fact most of the time
> the
> web app. is just trying to emulate the features of an internet protocol
> that is
> already there and working well. Why learn how to use a new BB or get a
> headache
> from Java applets that won't load when I can use standards like e-mail and
> IRC
> instead.
>
> > The point is *you* made up your mind, not everyone else. But thanks for
> > letting us know.
>
> I just want to end the thread because I can see that people will not use
> the forum and I'm still not sure why you are fighting so hard to get one.
> But thanks
> for coming out.
>
> Jesse
