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To leave Commie, hyper to
http://commie.oy.com/commie_leaving.html
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istari wrote:
>
> isnt the opposed from fear = brave ?
> and hate = love ?
Merely bravery is kind of neutral, learned state, instead of kpure
emotion:
If we think fear is -10, bravery is plain zero. It still has no
'positive effect', it only makes fear unnecessary. Let's take an
abstract metaphor (emotions are quite abstracts when trying to
'rationalize' them)
You go to art museum. There is a room, just an ordinary room. In the
middle of the room, there's ball made out of stone at pedestal. Nothing
miraculous in it itself.
Suddenly you feel fear, plain, irrational fear against the ball. You
don't like to feel that fear, and so decide to leave the room.
Another day you come back, and decide there's nothing to afraid of in
that ball. You might feel brave, because you have won your fear.
Ok, now your state is neutral, you don't have any emotions to that ball.
There's another room in that museum, also having a ball at pedestal, and
you walk in. You don't feel any fear against this one, instead you start
to feel happiness. And it seems to you there's no reason to it, but you
just feel you're falling in love with it.
You just love it.
Let's take third room, again a ball. When you walk in, it zaps you with
electric shock, and you rush out the room. In this case you have reason
to fear it, so, your fear is based on learning about situation.
Now, being again a concious decision, you choose to be brave and go in
again, or not.
In fourth room, there's again (surprise) a ball. You enter the room, and
when you touch the ball, you suddenly realize there's bottle of cold
beer of your favorite brand on the floor in front of you.
Next day you visit that room again, and again that ball gives you bottle
of beer.
Now you fall in love with it, because it gives you beer.
This is a conditional love, including *because*.
When suddenly that ball stops giving you beer, you have no reason to
love it. Perhaps you feel betrayed, and you become angry. You start to
hate that ball *because* it treated you like that. (...your ego protects
you even from nasty feelings...)
So, hate has always a reason, based on rational mind & memory, or
irrational emotion.
Childhood experiences on frustrations are good examples of "hate of
unknown origin". As we learn our emotions at very young age, many things
that 'adults' are 'get used to handle as everyday living', can have
exponential effects in a mind of a child. And as adults usually try to
suppress childrens' "negative" emotions, there starts a pattern "do not
show your feelings, especially if they are negative". There is a start
where ego starts to grow also.
When we learn that everything goes fine and benefitual situations follow
every time when 'positive' feelings are showed to parents (to satisfy
their expectations, as children are are expected to be 'good', when
they're not, there's something wrong in them), instead of freely
expressing our emotions, we learn to suppress them. And if don't find
any way to release our anger, it jsut don't go away, but stays in our
unconciousness, having a memory connection to some other thing in that
original situation.
And when this continues, result can be very "irrational" anger or hate
to "something", what's origin/s we have conciously forgotten.
> >
> >Yes, but if an individual is controlled by LOVE, instead of fear, what
> >do you think will happen?
> >(Actually you cannot be controlled by love from outside of you)
>
> maybe find a balance between.
Or to get rid of the fear at all... (skipping here lifesupporting
instincts and reasonable fears, like if there's coming towards you 20
drunk skinheads, it's not bravery to stay at same side of street and say
"peace, brothers" ...)
> >> so i think we not only controlled by fear, but motivated by imaginations.
> >Yes, but imaginations of what, and whose?
> dont know, mine ?
Imagined by yourself, or filtered by your ego?
> ok when i know i am weak its better to say, before i drop down at work.
Yes, but this society around us keep nags message "only loosers are
weak", until very recently, when more and more people are dropping
almost dead in their jobs.
Another nasty thing is that role-model for male is still "under
construction", men are supposed to a bit macho, wise, tender, sensitive,
able to flirt, able to small talk, to like children, to make shitloads
of money... what ever, but never a WEAK, that is strictly not allowed...
while woman of course can be weak, that is even expected! ...and if
woman is too strong, men starts to have fear...
...planetwide happy disneyland...
> >I'm not saying it's easy to find healthy self-esteem and self respect,
> >but it's still worth of trying, then you don't give a shit if someone
> >thinks you're weak, that's only their opinion, not yours.
>
> ok, i offten said "no i wont do it" because i have some fear with it or i see
> problems coming.
>
Yeh, I ain't no saint in this issue, much of things I've left undone,
simply because of I'm afraid to fail... too tight control of ego...
>
> ok send me your preaching talked by you as mp3 and i do the background music for it.
>
Heh, what you want me to preach? Read bible? ;)
Ok, if you trade it to "without beats" remix of Final Renewal, I liked
that base sound, especially at the end of track... I'd like to do it
with slow beats of shamandrums...
zep
