Jean T. Anderson wrote:
> I'll post here what I've told Noel and others elsewhere.
> At ApacheCon Eu two men who attended the Derby BOF said they don't like
> to post to user lists because of the flame wars. One went further to say
> that he doesn't always have the time to thoroughly research the
> documentation and mail lists for a given topic. Both said they prefer to
> seek out knowledgeable developers and ask their questions off-line.
> My experience at Apache has been good, so I was surprised to hear two
> users say they were reluctant to post to mail lists. They didn't say
> which list(s) had flamed them.

I too find this to be unusual behaviour at Apache.
At projects that i work with, people are respectful.

I wonder if this happens on some of the big user lists.
My good experiences are mostly on dev lists or small
user lists. Perhaps the Apache Way is not so evident
in the user arena.

> At any rate, contacting people offline works directly against community
> building (not to mention being a time sink for those being contacted
> offline), so whenever I receive off-list email I respond by encouraging
> the sender to re-post to derby-user or derby-dev.

Me too, and i often do copy-paste of some reasons.
We need that on a website somewhere.

> Out of this I guess I'd suggest for Netiquette guidelines that abrasive 
> rtfm's are counter productive. Courteous pointers to existing 
> documentation and/or posts are productive.

I often take the time to answer on-list and then
take some of those words into the w.a.o/dev/ documentation.

> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >There has been quite a bit of discussion around the ASF, not always on open
> >lists, to the effect that sometimes people are turned off or scared off 
> >from
> >participation, whether in a discussion, project or the ASF as a whole.
> >
> >The purpose for this message is to start a thread discussion the matter.
> >
> >  - Is there an issue?

Thanks for starting this key topic Noel.

I expect that there would be an issue, even on
the co-operative lists.

I wonder if some a certain percentage or certain type
of person might feel intimidated to step into the midst of
people who sound like they know what they are talking about.
If only they knew!

> >  - If so, how can we address it?

By identifying and talking about the many aspects
here on community@ and on our own project lists.
Then creating some documentation at /dev/ website.


> >As a point of reference, this week alone, I have seen at least a half dozen
> >instances of people getting personally upset during correspondence on ASF
> >lists.
> >
> >     --- Noel

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