On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 19:11 -0700, David Fotland wrote: > I suggest you filter all but the very strongest players, to get a more > accurate komi, from the strongest games.
There is a trade-off here of course. If you only look at a small sample you can have a lot of error. I'll have 2 constraints: only games where players are within N ELO (probably 100) of each other and only games where the weakest is stronger than E elo. I'll publish the data for various values of N and E. I also won't consider games lost on Time for this purpose and I will use the ELO calculation from Bayeselo, not the current ratings when the games were played. - Don > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:03 PM > > To: Erik van der Werf > > Cc: computer-go > > Subject: Re: [computer-go] 7.5-komi for 9x9 in Beijing > > > > > > Let me check CGOS statistics based on relatively evenly match > > opponents and I will filter out players that are pretty weak. Then > > I'll present the data. > > > > CGOS is not really a democracy, but I do care about the wishes of the > > program authors. So after I show some data, if it's highly in favor > > of white I would like to hear from those opposed and those in favor of > > going to 6.5 komi. I am interested also in HOW opposed or HOW much > > in > > favor you are. But let's wait for the data first. > > > > - Don > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 01:09 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote: > > > Maybe we could just do a vote? > > > > > > Erik > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 22:43 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote: > > > >> > The only reason I would favor one over the other is if it turned > > > >> > out that in "practical play" the games ended up > > > >> closer. > > > >> > For instance if black won a 53% at 6.5 komi and white wins 51% > > at > > > >> 7.5 > > > >> > komi, I would favor 7.5 because it kept the scores close. > > > >> > > > >> Last week I was told that, with 7.5 komi against itself, Mogo wins > > > >> over 60% as White. Also against my own program I have much better > > > >> chances when playing White. > > > > > > > > I really don't trust this after doing the Leela experiments. > > > > > > > > Also, I studied this a while back with CGOS data and saw a very > > tiny > > > > advantage for white, not much. This was even when I filtered the > > > > weaker opponents out. I suppose I could do this again but it > > > > doesn't seem to prove anything. > > > > > > > >> As programs become stronger the advantage for one side with > > > >> fractional komi will inevitably become totally unbalanced. At some > > > >> point we will approach 100% and then I rather have that go to the > > > >> first player. The only fair alternative is to use integer komi. > > > > > > > > I think we have a long time for that to happen. When that day > > comes, > > > > 9x9 will be like checkers is now, you have to play 10 or 20 draws > > > > just to get 1 or 2 wins. > > > > > > > > - Don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > computer-go mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
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