> Just out of curiosity, what did you expect from the playouts?

Nothing in particular, really; at this point I'm just trying to build up an 
intuition
about what I can or cannot expect from them. At first, I thought light playouts
would not fully explore, but at least randomly cover all possible games, so we
wouldn't get good move sequences directly, but lots of useful statistics to work
with; while heavy playouts would try to mimick more realistic games, so the
statistics would be biased, but there'd be a better chance of getting good moves
directly. That turned out to be somewhat naive on all counts, as the answers
to my earlier messages showed!-)

There is no chance of covering all possible games, so uniformly random
play (light playouts) definitely ignores some, and if realistic games are 
unlikely,
and good move sequences even more so, then they get the least coverage.
So, in the presence of limited resources, "no bias" is a bias on its own. And
the way eyes and other rules knowledge are encoded for efficiency reasons
introduces other biases as well.

Heavy playouts never drop possible sequences, they just try to focus the
available resources away from sequences that appear less promising. That
can have unpredictable effects, so the "unpromising" sequences are kept
in the pool, at low priority, and the resulting focussed playouts need heavy
testing to get some measure of confidence in any improvements.

In sum, there doesn't seem to be a good basis for understanding playouts
and their optimisation, other than by trial and error. Those who've been
through some cycles of trial-and-error probably have at least a vague
intuition of what works and what doesn't (or didn't when they last tried),
but there is depressingly little theory (and many of the references are
infuriatingly vague - in the style of "there was a lot of discussion about 
that";
great! not! where, when, what keywords or references, please?-).

I'm trying to build some of that intuition in advance, both to be able to
focus my trial-and-error phase and to have some theory to complement
the experiments.

At the moment, the most puzzling aspect is that the uncertainties aren't
bounded in any direction: the pseudo-eyes variations aren't subsets of
each other (that can probably be fixed, and would result in a single best
variation, at least for the three ones I've mentioned);

the playout evaluation, while somewhat biased toward not seeing more
complex properties of board positions, cannot even be said to give a
lower bound on the score, because it will underestimate both the
strength of positions and the strength of possible attacks against them
(though knowing that much will be of some help at least).

Currently, it seems as if even many of the tricks that seem to work
wonderfully well don't really have a solid basis, so any tournament
could throw up a game that puts the whole thing into doubt, by
showing a hole in the test coverage big enough to drive a truck
through (once pros and others know what to look for). Or not.

But if a (very) occasional, weak player like myself can show up
some of the biases in concrete board positions, then a real player,
not to mention a professional, should be able to spot and exploit
them in real games.

Claus



_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Reply via email to