On 24.07.2010 20:43, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 07/24/2010 12:47 PM, Raymond Wold wrote:
Any challenge demonstrating the program's skill (such as John Tromp's
bet) can be called into question in either direction, with
speculation on whether the opponent knows of the flaw(s) or not. The
game turns into something not go, but rather "do you know this
program or not?" I am more interested in the game of go.
To say this isn't Go is ridiculous, and shows your own bias and
intellectual dishonesty, even if you now regret putting these phrases
into play.
Hyperbole is not the same as bias. Would you say that atari-go is go?
What about a game with time limits of half a second per move, is that
go? Playing on a 5x5 board, is that go? It turns into something
different, with other measures of skill. Perhaps technically still go,
but the essence is lost.
I'll raise again my argument which you haven't responded to: "10 years
ago the idea that a computer program would win this bet, even without
allowing any kind of sparring, would be laughable." In 1997, John had
no problems with not being able to probe the program in advance. It
was actually part of the original bet: "2.It need not be the
commercially available version (to prevent you learning weaknesses)."
Clearly programs have improved since then. This wouldn't even be under
debate if there wasn't at least a reasonable chance that the computer
would win. Does this one bet provide a "true" rating for the bot? No!
But it is interesting, even if the program has weaknesses that could
be exploited with repeated play.
Oh of course it is an advance. I would just find it a lot more
impressive if the worst weaknesses have also been eliminated.
And still no one will give me a straight answer. DO all the top program
now in existence have exploitable flaws far (lets say at least a few
stones in rank) below their claimed rank or server-calculated rating? If
I have to investigate this myself, which program should I start with?
I'm at best 2 kyu (probably more likely a weak 3 kyu, European) - if
programs are now challenging for amateur shodan status, will I be able
to find a program that can beat me most of the time until I have
advanced to shodan myself?
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