Hello Darren-san, Darren Cook: <[email protected]>: >> Zen uses no opening book for 19x19 (but some joseki knowledge must >> provided by the patterns acquired from game records).... > >Hello Kato-san, >Does Zen use patterns bigger than 3x3 then? (And if so, in the playouts >too, or just in the MCTS tree?)
AFAIK Zen is the first success of the large patterns in Rémi's paper. The maximum diagonal of the patterns is 7 (Erica uses 9 ;^) and only used in the tree part. Although Yamato started MoGo-style playout with local 3x3 patterns, now it's very complicated with lots of his ideas. Hideki >On the subject of joseki, it seemed Many Faces came off equal or >distinctly worse in the joseki in the games against John Tromp. So, I >think it needs still more joseki knowledge? > >By the way, in game 1 John played a move (G15) that was not joseki (F15 >is apparently the joseki move). John read the KGS comments between >games, and played the correct move when the same pattern came up in game >2 :-) > >Darren > > > Yamato once >> tried but made Zen weaker in benchmarks, possibly due to a mismatching >> of the playing style. >> >> Hideki >> >>> This is the same with the situations of human learning. When a player is >>> weaker than 1d, joseki is not so important, because if he is leading 10 >>> points in the opening stage, the game might be reversed by losing 20 points >>> in an easy semeai of middle game. But, when a player is improved to 1d or >>> 2d, joseki starts to make sense, since his reading ability makes the >>> "semeai >>> big loss" much >>> fewer. >>> >>> For me, I can't imagine to beat a 6d player without joseki knowledge. When >>> I >>> lose 10 points in the opening, that is almost decisive. That's why pros >>> sometimes resign early and immediately after wrong joseki playing, because >>> there is no chance to reverse, in their view. >>> >>> The stronger the playing strengh, the more important the opening play. 9x9 >>> Go is exactly a good example for statement. Do you think mfgo, on 9x9, can >>> beat a strong program, if the first move is played at the first line? :) >>> >>> Aja >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Hideki Kato <mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
