Hi Kato-san, Darren-san,
Yes, Erica is using larger patterns up to size 9.
どういたしまして :)
Aja
-----原始郵件-----
From: Hideki Kato
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 4:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Orego 7.08 released
Hello Darren-san,
Darren Cook: <[email protected]>:
Zen uses no opening book for 19x19 (but some joseki knowledge must
provided by the patterns acquired from game records)....
Hello Kato-san,
Does Zen use patterns bigger than 3x3 then? (And if so, in the playouts
too, or just in the MCTS tree?)
AFAIK Zen is the first success of the large patterns in Rémi's paper.
The maximum diagonal of the patterns is 7 (Erica uses 9 ;^) and only
used in the tree part. Although Yamato started MoGo-style playout
with local 3x3 patterns, now it's very complicated with lots of his
ideas.
Hideki
On the subject of joseki, it seemed Many Faces came off equal or
distinctly worse in the joseki in the games against John Tromp. So, I
think it needs still more joseki knowledge?
By the way, in game 1 John played a move (G15) that was not joseki (F15
is apparently the joseki move). John read the KGS comments between
games, and played the correct move when the same pattern came up in game
2 :-)
Darren
Yamato once
tried but made Zen weaker in benchmarks, possibly due to a mismatching
of the playing style.
Hideki
This is the same with the situations of human learning. When a player is
weaker than 1d, joseki is not so important, because if he is leading 10
points in the opening stage, the game might be reversed by losing 20
points
in an easy semeai of middle game. But, when a player is improved to 1d
or
2d, joseki starts to make sense, since his reading ability makes the
"semeai
big loss" much
fewer.
For me, I can't imagine to beat a 6d player without joseki knowledge.
When I
lose 10 points in the opening, that is almost decisive. That's why pros
sometimes resign early and immediately after wrong joseki playing,
because
there is no chance to reverse, in their view.
The stronger the playing strengh, the more important the opening play.
9x9
Go is exactly a good example for statement. Do you think mfgo, on 9x9,
can
beat a strong program, if the first move is played at the first line? :)
Aja
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Hideki Kato <mailto:[email protected]>
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