Every
Oklahoma attorney takes an oath, dating from statehood (not from the Cold War)
that we "do solemnly swear that you will support, protect and defend the
Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of
Oklahoma." Obviously, as an attorney licensed in Oklahoma, I take
with that a duty to defend Oklahoma's constitution, but I do so within the
framework of the United States and the United States Constitution. The
idea that I must support the Oklahoma legislature's view of the law, as compared
to that of Congress, the President, or the Supreme Court, stretches the
oath, or pledge, beyond recognition. Surely pledging allegiance, even to
Texas, takes into consideration that Texas is one of the United
States.
Andy
Andrew W. Lester
Lester, Loving & Davies, P.C.
1505
South Renaissance Boulevard
Edmond, Oklahoma
73013-3018
Tel. (405) 844-9900
Fax (405) 844-9958
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:
www.lldlaw.com
-----Original Message-----well, they might or might not be citizens of texas; even children attending school in texas are not necessarily citizens of texas although they are being required to pledge to texas. state citizenship itself seems to be unclear. For example, last time I knew, Texas did not allow people to get "instate" tuition for the Univ. of Texas unless they moved there before applying for school. So, you could go to Univ. of Texas as a first year undergrad. and stay on for law school; live in the state 7 or more years, vote, own a house, have children there, pay taxes, and not be considered a "citizen" or at least a "state resident" for purposes of "in-state" tuition. This is hardly a "silly" issue. Moreover, the pledge seems to me to raise issues of what exactly state citizenship means.
From: Paul Finkelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Texas Pledge of Allegiance
Here is the issue, I suppose: if you pledge "allegience" to your state, and your state is in conflict with the national government on some political or economic issue, are you duty bound to support the state -- say to vote for the presidential candidate that will support the state on this issue?
paul finkelman
Nelson Lund wrote:
It is perfectly obvious that one can have all kinds of allegiances that do not conflict with one another. The quoted pledge of allegiance to Texas does not specify what kind of allegiance is being pledged, and it seems silly to infer that whatever kind of allegiance is implied must be incompatible with allegiance to the United States. The Texas pledge doesn't say anything that would carry this implication, and the silliness of inferring such a thing seems particularly silly when one considers that American citizens who reside in Texas are also citizens of Texas. Nelson LundPaul Finkelman wrote: isn't there a difference between political and religious "allegience." In a monotheistic world one presumes you cannot pledge to two gods at the same time; similarly, the question is, can you pledge to two forms of governments at the same time. I suppose it is possible to pledge to many different entities. I pledge allegience to the Syracause Organmen in basketball and will support no other college team. I pledge allegeience to the San Antonio Spurs and will support no other professional basketball team. I pledge allegience to the New York Yankees and will support no other professional baseball team. I pledge all. to the God of Abraham and Moses and will have no other God. I pledge all. to the United States, and will support no other flag or political entity. None of these are inconsistent. But, you cannot "pledge to the the God of Abraham and Moses" and then say I also pledge allegience to Jupiter and Neptune and Thor. I cannot "pledge" to the Yankees and the also "pledge" to the Red Sox. I cannot "pledge" to the United States and also to the France. So, the question is, can I pledge to the US and to the state (nee Republic) of Texas? Paul Finkelman -- Paul Finkelman Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law University of Tulsa College of Law 3120 East 4th Place Tulsa, OK 74104-3189 918-631-3706 (office) 918-631-2194 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nelson Lund wrote:Does the logic of this objection to the Texas pledge mean that people who pledge allegiance to the United States are "nullifying" their allegiance to God? Nelson Lund Paul Finkelman wrote:I received the follow question from an English professor in one of the Texas state colleges. I wonder what people on this list think of the law law and her question: "The state legislature passed a law this session that mandates schoolchildren pledge an allegiance to the Texas flag as well as the US flag each morning. It goes: "Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one and indivisible." My question is this: if I pledge allegiance to Texas, am I not then nullifying my pledge to the US? Do I not, by pledging allegiance to one state, NOT pledge any allegiance to the other 49? This seems unconsitutional to me, but then what do I know? " -- Paul Finkelman Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law University of Tulsa College of Law 3120 East 4th Place Tulsa, OK 74104-3189 918-631-3706 (office) 918-631-2194 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED]-- Paul Finkelman Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law University of Tulsa College of Law 3120 East 4th Place Tulsa, OK 74104-3189 918-631-3706 (office) 918-631-2194 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
