On Sunday 05 Oct 2003 17:05, Thomas Backlund wrote: > > > People will start saying: "... but you updated that package ...", > > > and "this package adds or modifies this or that feature that is > > > needed... if we don't have it I consider it's broken... and we can't > > > have a "broken" distrib..." > > > > Now we're comparing OpenOffice with Gaim... What these bugs are for Gaim, > > is "oowriter and oocalc won't start" for OpenOffice. (Which actually > > happened to me in RC2, but happened to be fixed in time). I.e. buggy > > enough to make the package unusable for most people. > > Maybe a bad comparision, but the point is that different users has > different opinions of what's important to get as an update....
You are right there... And I am experienced enough with linux to compile gaim from scratch if I have to... But I don't want to go back to this specific case at all.. If software is buggy, you can do three things IMHO: 1) Provide upgrades for everyone 2) Make very clear to "download" users that updates are available for the software but they are only available after registration. This is what is said to happen now, but I haven't seen such thing. Sure, I can <click here> to register, but what I am missing is the "ah I have to register, so these bugs are fixed and I get these advantages" feeling. 3) Don't ship the software. > > > today gaim, tomorrow OpenOffice.org final..., and then ... > > > > > > and suddenly the updates mirrors are not a few kB more... instead you > > > will be calculating the updates in MBs, then in GBs .... > > > > For some reason I immedately must think about the famous Redmond OS > > service packs, sometimes 100 MB in size. You happily download those, for > > they fix bugs. > > Yeah, but we don't have to try to be as "bad" as them... ;-) > and remember that all those customers (atleast the legal ones) has already > paid for their product, something that you can compare to the club account > ( see below...) I do not completely agree with you on this one. In the Redmond case you pay, install, get annoyed with the bugs, update. In the mandrake case you download, install, get annoyed with the bugs, must pay, update. Basic buisiness rule: annoyed or angry customers are reluctant to pay, especially when they are not sure that all their problems will be fixed after they paid. > and IMHO that's something that people don't really like either especially > on slow dial-up lines... Very true. But the fact a part of the people have a slow connection (none at all) shouldn't be a reason why not to provide updates. It's a good reason to provide a "Download most critical fixes only" option. > > > > So IMHO here comes the power of an Club membership..., > > > > > > join the club and you will most likely get the downloads there... > > > and all are happy... (you get what you pay for... remember...) > > > > You say, become a club member. Ok, fair. Problem is, when I Mr newbe user > > download Mandrake, I see a buggy distro, and no updates. In the first > > place, I see nowhere that many problems are solved if I pay (and I'm > > reluctant to pay, for Mandrake is buggy, and who tells me that my > > problems are gone after I paid ?), in the second place, after I paid, the > > manual how to get the club updates in, is practically non existent (I > > found something deep in a forum once). > > If you have a club account, after the installation, upon first boot, the > Fist Time Wizard will help you set up your Club account, and automatically > add the club download source to the installer, and so you will be able to > upgrde... Ok, I must admit, I missed the first time wizzard on 9.2 (and was not a clubmember yet when I installed 9.1), for X crashes badly with my dual screen setup. (A known bug in the Matrox driver) After I finished hacking, the first time wizzard has long forgotten that it ever existed (and me too). > > Users are willing to pay for something good, not for something bad that > > mabye gets better after they paid. To quote you: "join the club and you > > will most likely get the downloads there". I don't see whether that is > > true, so I should just pay and hope ? Sorry, that's not the way customers > > think in 2003. > > I made a Bad choice of words... > most packages that have had a high demand has been built and uploaded > to Club AFAIK... I have been a club member for half a year now, and manage to find my way trough the download section. (www interface that is, the urpmi interface is easy, but I try to look as a non-member now) All I ment to say is that customers want to see what they pay for, and the entrance to the club downloads (for non club members) isn't exactly paved with marble... Mr Newbie downloads 9.2, installs 9.2, clicks trough the first time wizzard, skipping the registration for he first wants to see whether he likes it, and gets no clue anymore that the bugs are solved / updates are available if he is registered. It would be nice if Mandrake Update shows all files available in Club with a red cross in front: "Only available for club members" > > What I am really discussing is the way users see MandrakeSoft, that > > almost bankrupt company with a rather cool distro that needs all money it > > can get. The problem with any linux distribution is that the Download > > Edition is in fact your advertisement. And bad advertisement doesn't > > sell. And selling is essential for MandrakeSoft. > > OTOH many of the users of Download Edition does not ever buy a package or > become a club member anyway, wich means it does not generate any income > there either... True, therefore you don't have to provide everything for free. Throwing out a fishing line to catch the users for the club is a good one too. Though at the moment I got the feeling the bait on MandrakeClubs fishing line is missing. > > Maybe -but that's too late now- it is an option to add a feature during > > the install period: Enter MandrakeClub membership ID / Passwd (or > > registration code) to get less critical updates. I can live with paying > > for some updates, if only you can make clear to the customers what they > > gain after paying. Show them a list of updates only available to > > members... or something... > > this is alrerady done by the first time wizard... > Ok, told you already why I missed the wizard. Just did the wizard again, and I don't see the list I talked about though. Jos
