Greetings,
Jayne Shrimpton is an expert in old costumes and can often date photos
from the clothes worn. She has a regular column in "Irish Lives
Remembered" and can be contacted through them:
[email protected] or by snail mail to the Editor (Patrick
Roycroft) at:
Eneclann
5 Whitefriars
Dublin 2
Ireland
The magazine is: FREE to view at irishlivesremembered.com
Jayne helped me date an old photo of ancestors in Belfast through the
photo studio not far from where they lived.
Gordon
On 26/08/2024 4:51 pm, Chris Owen via CoTyroneList wrote:
Hi Dave
An interesting snapshot of people and of history!
I’m no fashion expert but those clothes remind me of the era of the
suffragettes. I THINK that was mainly the earliest years of the 20th
Century. But I’m sure someone more knowledgable will be able to
advise on the timing of that particularly ghastly era for the women of
England. Meanwhile here in Australia women had already been granted
the vote, but shamefully not the First Nations people! But I digress!
So I’m wondering if this might have been just a bit later than 1895
that you thought. I don’t know if this style was around before the
turn of the century but I’d have put it as more 20thC than late 19thC.
So hopefully someone will know. But my instant reaction when I saw
the photo was to remember suffragettes dressed like that.
Good luck with finding out
Regards Chris Owen nee McCormack from Tyrone (and heading to Ireland
this December)
On 26 Aug 2024, at 14:31, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dave,
Can’t help with the clothing at all. My knowledge is zero, though I
can’t help thinking that by 1895 people across the whole of the UK
and Ireland probably wore pretty similar styles.
If you go to the Scotlandspeople site (pay to view) you can search
the Scottish censuses (as well as a variety of other Scottish
records). Searching the 1901 census, I don’t see any Wathieu families
at all. I see just 3 Wathew families in the Glasgow area. 1 in St
Rollox registration area (6 people), a second in Partick (2 people)
and a third in Dennistoun (5 people). The indexes will give you their
names and ages. If you want to see the full census return you need to
pay. It’s about £1.60 (sterling) per page.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records
If any of the names look like your family, you can use the same site
to search earlier censuses, back to 1841 as well as for birth, death
& marriage certificates for them. You can also search the 1911 & 1921
censuses.
Birth, death & marriage registration started in Scotland in 1855.
Prior to that you need to use church baptism records, same as
Ireland. Mainstream denominationsbaptism & marriage recordsie
Presbyterian and Catholic are on the same website.
Save for the years 1856 -1860, Scottish birth certificates record
where and when the parents married. Their marriage certificates also
record both parents details (as opposed to Irish & English
certificates which only have the fathers names and occupations) and
also whether they were alive or dead on that date.
Scottish research is a lot easier than Irish!
Cathcart today is very much part of Glasgow. It’s a southern suburb.
Eaglesham (pronounced Eagle-sham) is a little further on the southern
edge of the city. Perhaps 10 miles from the city centre. Milngavie
(pronounced Mill-guy)is on the northern edge of the city perhaps 7
miles from the city centre. Easily accessible by train (then and
now). So none of the 3 places Carrie visited were very far out of town.
Here’s a link to the Milngavie reservoir they visited. Still very
much in existence today. (I remember it as a child). We always knew
it as Mugdock reservoir.
Milngavie Reservoir - Scottish Water
<https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/In-Your-Area/Visiting-our-Reservoirs/Sites/Milngavie-Reservoir>
Milngavie Reservoir - Scottish Water
<https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/In-Your-Area/Visiting-our-Reservoirs/Sites/Milngavie-Reservoir>
Elwyn
On Monday 26 August 2024 at 01:47:56 BST, Dave Vanable via
CoTyroneList <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello listers!
Attached is a photo that was "hiding" in a bin with some old family
photos that I was scanning today... reportedly Carrie Butterfield
Wathey (my dad's grandmother, on his mom's side) is in this picture,
and the woman in the upper right certainly looks like other pictures
that I have of her from the time. Carrie was my born in Providence RI
in 1873 to John Campbell Wathey (Irish) and Caroline Hanley from
Scotland.
In 1895 (at age 21) Carrie went on a two-month trip to Scotland via
"The City of Rome" (Inman line) to spend time with aunts, uncles, and
cousins to convalesce from malaria -- during which time she wrote a
delightful diary (14 pages typewritten, transcribed by my grandma -
Carrie's daughter - and typed up at some point by my dad's sister).
While mostly it seems there were visits and tea parties, Carrie
mentions going from Glasgow (where her cousins whom she was visiting
lived) to Eaglesham and to Cathcart (to visit family and see where
Mary Queen of Scots ruled), and then Milngavie to have a picnic and
see the waterworks... this Milngavie jaunt even mentions 10 young
ladies together having fun and meeting a couple of young men who took
our photo... Note that the attached picture has 10 women, one man,
plus a photographer. The image looks unusual to me because of the
hats worn by the women, very simple in style and a bit "vertically
inclined" in the center. (Can you tell I know nothing about hats LOL).
So while there is a TON of conjecture and leaping from one item to
the next, things do somewhat hang together as this MIGHT be the photo
from her trip in 1895 to Scotland!
Long story short, I am wondering if anyone knows if the people's
attire seems "typically Scottish" in any and if you have a sense of
the timeframe of the picture? Ideas welcome for how to track down the
Scottish side of the family, who were apparently called Wathieu in
Scotland. I've done no research work in Scotland, with most of my
focus on County Tyrone (Venables near Clogher) and County Leitrim
(Knotts).
Thanks for any ideas or input,
Dave
PS: Should anyone be interested, I'm happy to send the diary to you
offline.
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