Can you elaborate how creating a space first could hurt you?

Jerome
______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
Los Angeles, CA 90036

1450 2nd Street (@ Broadway)
Santa Monica, CA 90401

323.330.9505 (office)

On Mar 3, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Derek Neighbors wrote:

> Jonathan,
> 
> It seems you are focused on the wrong things if you want to engage with 
> Economic Development professionals.  I will be at the coworking unconference 
> in Austin and would be willing to talk with people about this.  Gangplank has 
> significant partnership with it's city and in process of launching additional 
> sites as partners with other cities.  Alex/Jerome I think your assertions are 
> on the right track, but I can promise that you don't have to create a 
> traditional coworking space in order to get the attention of the ED in your 
> city.  In fact, doing so probably hurts you more than it helps you. 
> 
> --
> Derek Neighbors
> Gangplank
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]> wrote:
> Look everyone. I know that some of you are very ambitious and creative to 
> convince, say, an EDC to invest in coworking.  But to provide industry-wide 
> metrics for traditional-minded views is tough when this "industry" has just 
> begun.  Besides, the data is going to be all over the place.  There hasn't 
> been any "formula" for ramp-up, square footage effectiveness, composition of 
> memberships (full-time vs. part-time, etc.)...Every facility is going to be 
> different, and even if similar, probably hasn't been around long enough to 
> provide any meaningful metric.
> 
> The only way to get meaningful metrics is for some academic grant or some 
> philanthropic benefactor to finance the resources to gather such fragmented 
> and very early data.
> 
> So like Alex has recommended many times over, just focus on your facility, 
> your community and use your common sense to adjust as req'd.
> 
> 
> Jerome
> ______________
> BLANKSPACES
> "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"
> 
> www.blankspaces.com
> 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
> Los Angeles, CA 90036
> 
> 1450 2nd Street (@ Broadway)
> Santa Monica, CA 90401
> 
> 323.330.9505 (office)
> 
> On Mar 3, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Alex Hillman wrote:
> 
>> But to answer your question - To what end?  To the end of getting funding, 
>> tax breaks, etc from cities to promote the growth of coworking.
>> 
>> Maybe it's just a philosophical difference but we've intentionally gone the 
>> OTHER direction, building things in a way that doesn't require or need the 
>> city for growth. In fact, most of our interactions with the city (and 
>> they're happening regularly) involve a conversation that goes something 
>> like, "We love what you guys are doing, and more importantly, that you're 
>> not doing it with your hand out." To us, NOT needing them is just as 
>> important as helping them. Needing them in order to help them isn't really 
>> helping them in the long term. 
>> 
>> Some of the questions I've been asked: 
>> - How many sqft does a space need to be successful? 
>> - How quickly does membership typically grow? 
>> - How many members can be supported per sqft? 
>> - How many "jobs" and "businesses" are generally created and over what 
>> period of time?
>> 
>> I get these too. 3-5 times a week. Just because they ask a question doesn't 
>> mean answering that question is the right answer. 
>> 
>> http://dangerouslyawesome.com/2010/11/where-jobs-come-from/
>> 
>> Giving them answers that satiate them is nice and all, but there's SO much 
>> more value in pushing them to rethink the questions they're asking. When 
>> folks from these organizations (private or public sector) want to understand 
>> coworking better, I give them the same answer that I give members interested 
>> in coworking: just show up.
>> 
>> -Alex
>>  
>> /ah
>> indyhall.org
>> coworking in philadelphia
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Jonathan Yankovich 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> > Jonathan said:
>> > > for local/regional/state/national groups interested in coworking, to 
>> > > support
>> > > the cause and show people the real value using numbers as opposed to the
>> > > more ephemeral attributes that we're talking about here.
>> 
>> Alex said:
>> 
>> > To what end? *Sounds* great but most governments and coworking space
>> > owners/operators/founders won't have a clue what to do with these "metrics"
>> > other than throw them at the EDCs and, well, I've already written about
>> > that: 
>> > http://dangerouslyawesome.com/2010/12/on-economic-development-centers-and-coworking/
>> 
>> I think its more about communicating the value of this new model to
>> the people who hold the purse strings in communities when it comes
>> to.  In Madison, our city economic development champion "gets"
>> coworking and sees it as the future, but recognizes that few of the
>> people who are generally involved with economic development decisions
>> and about how to spend government money really understand it the way
>> we do.
>> 
>> Some of the questions I've been asked:
>> 
>> - How many sqft does a space need to be successful?
>> - How quickly does membership typically grow?
>> - How many members can be supported per sqft?
>> - How many "jobs" and "businesses" are generally created and over what
>> period of time?
>> 
>> Answering these kinds of questions will give "EDC's" information that
>> they can understand in the context they're used to.  These folks are
>> used to things like business plan contests (not coworking),
>> "incubators" (not coworking), and tax subsidies for small businesses
>> (not coworking).  If we want them to understand the value of
>> coworking, we have to present information about it in a way that they
>> can "get".  I was hoping that by gathering metrics we could do this,
>> but based on feedback from many people on this list, it sounds like a
>> problem that we perhaps shouldn't even try to solve ... for now.
>> 
>> But to answer your question - To what end?  To the end of getting
>> funding, tax breaks, etc from cities to promote the growth of
>> coworking.
>> 
>> _jonathan yankovich
>> 
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