Hi. I'm an architect, so I'll try to chime in on the viewpoint of an operator, an architect, and structural engineer (my life before architecture)
100sf/person is the [office] "load factor", or what the codes anticipate is the typical amount of space each office worker might occupy. It does consider the entire office space, down to the hallway, conference rooms, etc. And yes, while this load factor does play into the "safe load capacity" structurally, it's more for fire/life safety, as in how wide to make the exit door, etc. Technically, for the structural engineer, a load factor just tells him/her what size beams and floor thickness to use. In economic terms, the load factor is sort of the demand, and the structural beam, exit door, etc. are the supplies. Back to the City Hall. No fighting req'd. You design the space for 100sf/person, just for code-purposes like egress (exiting), etc. Almost always, your exit doors will be more than enough to actually legally/safely allow more people to occupy the space. Coworking places will unlikely fill up so densely to become what codes deem as "assembly" space (theaters, stadiums, restaurants). And even if you do cram people, it's up to the city if they want to "upgrade" your status to assembly, which again, your space will probably already comply with exiting. Now, if you do cram in the seats or density, you might trigger requirements to add more toilets, sinks, etc. Again, the City will stick to their codes, which will always classify coworking as an office, as it should. Having the occasional event that increases the density will not violate codes on a permanent basis. Having the occasional event COULD violate fire [egress/exiting] codes, which again, goes back to the width of that exit door, stair, and corridor. Fire safety limits the occupancy even for occasional, potential violations. Anyway, generally, you're safe. So to be direct, the 100sf/person is NOT for ancillary rooms like foosball, etc. It's just "typical" office. And 4'-5' desks do work. Huddle and touchdown spaces are even smaller per person. Finally, to address Alex's notes, while his personal experience may hold true, no City code will care what you claim works. They go by what's been written into law. So be judicious - don't make your case more worse than it needs to be. I hope that helps! Jerome ______________ BLANKSPACES "work FOR yourself, not BY yourself" www.blankspaces.com ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036 ph: 310.526.2255 | 1450 2nd Street (@ Broadway), Santa Monica, CA 90401 On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Alex Hillman wrote: > Agreed. Our 4400 is "usable square footage". Usable is squishy, too. Jerome's > experience in architecture, for instance, gives him unique perspective on > ways to use space that most of us probably don't have. And on our end, we're > changing our layout every 6 months or so and finding ways to make the space > "more usable" which results in the ability to support more simultaneous > members. Every time, it feels like we get more efficient, but the space size > obviously doesn't change :) > > -Alex > > /ah > indyhall.org > coworking in philadelphia > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM, John Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > Alex- > > I agree with what you are saying. I do think the formula gives a good > starting point though that can be tweaked to fit the different > situations. Using just a sq footage of the space doesn't always > accommodate the layout of the space. A rectangle of space that is > 2400 sq ft may fit more people and have different configurations than > one with many cubby holes and quirks in the architecture. By taking > in the total square footage,(which is what you are leasing) you are > taking into account area that people may not be able to work in such > as kitchen, restroom etc. I'm sure if you need/want to factor those > out you can and probably should, but your price/desk will go up > accordingly. On Aug 5, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: > I completely agree that this number needs some reconsideration. If for no > other reason, the calculation "per person" isn't really per person, it's per > workstation. > > Let's try to make it people based. I got prodded by Chad about this earlier > in the week, here's what I came up with so far to get it people-focused > instead of desk/workstation focused. > > We can comfortably have about 55 people working from Indy Hall simultaneously > right now. It's probably another 10 if you count our conference rooms as > usable workspace, which they're often used as by teams up to 5. But that's a > rarity for us, and I'll be conservative with my estimates. Also for > reference, our current workspace is ANYTHING but cramped - there's LOTS of > room for moving around, socializing, etc. > > For the moment I'll ignore that we're at about 63% full time member > utilization (that is, 63% of the 55 individuals at any given time are full > time members), and the remainder areour various flex memberships. Every > member has access to all of the common areas, so they become subdivided > accordingly at capacity. > > 4400 square feet / 55 people = 80 sq ft per person (aggregate of workstation > + common areas). > > For membership price-wise, if every spot was occupied by a full time > membership ($275 as well), that'd be ~$3.40/sq ft. That gives us some pretty > great headroom from our cost of $1.36/sq ft we pay in rent. And that's the > LEAST efficient membership in terms of revenue AND utilization. Our flex > memberships provide even more...I'm just not sure how to calculate it yet. > > -Alex > > > /ah > indyhall.org > coworking in philadelphia > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Glen Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote: > I've been wondering: 100 sqft per person is the legacy standard for > conventional office space. That generally would be cubicles and private > offices. According to an architect here, much of that 100 sq ft number comes > from rated safe floor load capacity with heavy desks and filing cabinets. Is > the 100 sqft in the coworking world a carryover from this, or is it the > desire for an open floor plan and not wanting to feel cramped like working at > a Starbucks table? Or is it that coworking has more "unoccupied space" - > hallways, bathrooms, closets, foosball playrooms? Do you count your > conference rooms as unoccupied space or as a regular workspace? What size > desk/table top do your members use? I've seen some posts say their location > has 5 foot tables, others have 4 foot ones. > > To ask it another way, did we arrive at this number from actual experience, > or was it the architect saying 100 sqft, the city permitting office saying > you're an office so occupancy is at no more than 100 sqft and we've gone with > those numbers rather than "fight city hall" and seek out our own optimum > density? > > I'm working through some occupancy issues with my city at the moment - we'd > like to be able to hold an occasional lecture or conference, and that can > change some of our space usage to 7.5 sqft per person - so space usage and > occupancy are on my mind right now. > > > - Glen > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:41 AM, John Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > Alex- > > As stated in a previous post, it kinda is already in the wiki > > http://wiki.coworking.info/w/page/16583920/PricingExamples > > The above isn't exactly like how Jasper did his calculations, but > gives a good starting point > > On Aug 5, 12:11 am, Alex Hillman <[email protected]> wrote: > This is some of the best simple Coworking math I've seen in a single > post. > It certainly belongs in the wiki. Thanks Jasper! > > -Alex > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. 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