Aaron and John, It's great that you guys want to try to figure out what
all is being talked about here on this list. There are both marxist
points of views, and nonmarxist views, being expressed on this list.
And sometimes it is confusing to know just who is who, and which is
which.
Therefore, it might be good to approach the dialog here in the same way
that one has to do with religion. One person's Christianity can
oftentimes be another Christian's idea of unsalvable sin. As an
atheist, I prefer to side with the Christian theology that has a more
human aspect to it.
As non-marxists, maybe this is the approach you might want to take until
you can a better idea of the finer points of theology (no, make that
marxism) being discussed. Just like there are major differences
between the beliefs of religious people, there are also major
differences amongst those of the marxian persuasion. Just carry a
cross with you at all times.
Best wishes, Tony
________________________________
Hello everyone,
������I would like to make a couple of comments about
marxism and common sense etc.
��������First of all I am not a marxist, even so I share
a lot of the same values that most marxists I've come across have. One
reason I do not think that I will ever be a marxist is that I simply
don't understand what you are talking about sometimes. Also, as Tom was
saying, I sometimes get a sense of
����arrogance, that seems to shut the door on any alternative
views on the matter.
��������I realize that on this list we are supposedly
discussing the crash and what kind of societal structures we need to
cope with, prevent, or lessen such an occurrence[ at least I think
that's what we are doing, if I'm wrong or missing something please tell
me]. So we are definetly not writing to convince the public at large, as
of yet. However, if we are to change the world, so to speak, we must at
some point be able to express our views to a much wider audience and be
convincing to that audience. Now I'm certainly not the most educated or
well read, or most intelligent person around. But I do spend an
inordinate amount of time,compared to the average person, thinking and
reading about our society and its problems and how I would like to see
things be instead, and how maybe that could be done. What I'm saying is,
that if I find your arguments hard to follow and I spend the kind of
time I do on this type of thing, how on earth are you going to be able
to communicate with the average person who works 8-12hrs a day and has
kids to deal with, along with many other things. These people are going
to tune you out almost immediately unless you [we] are able to speak in
clear and straight forward terms that does not also deteriorate into
mere slogans.
������Please don't think I'm attacking anyone in particular,
this has just been something I've noticed with marxists on several
lists, as well as in person. I've also found this among economists, who
like to refer to statistical models in the tenth dimension which only 10
other people in the world can understand. Of course most economists are
happy with the status quo so it suites their needs to speak in
impenetrable terms. That way no one is qualified to dispute them. Since
we on this list are not here defending the status quo, it would benefit
us to make our arguments more accessible.
������I guess I simply am venting some of my frustration at
what I see as fairly simple arguments being wrapped up in language that
has no other purpose than to make the writer feel intelligent and the
rest of us feel confused or dumb or both. Until recently I thought this
was mainly the domain of post modernists.
����������
Sincerely, Aaron.
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