Thank you Tony. I don't know about Aaron but I am not particularly
interested in the finer points of Marxist (or any other) theory or theology.
They would only be of value if they could offer a demonstrable and practical
way of avoiding the crash - which, although it sometimes seems most
contributors have forgotten - is the whole point of this group (as far as I
know).
Having been on the group for a few weeks, it seems to me that in spite of
Mark's good efforts to keep discussion more or less on topic and presented
in a reasonably positive manner, it might nevertheless be a good idea for
the group to split into two separate e-groups: those who want to talk and
duel endlessly about theories and theologies and those who are genuinely
interested in finding, discussing and positively debating practical and
readily understandable ideas and ways of avoiding the crash. Alternatively,
perhaps someone already knows of such a group in which case I'll sign up to
it.
All the best.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Abdo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:08 PM
Subject: [CrashList] Re:Will Anyone Take Any Notice???
> Aaron and John, It's great that you guys want to try to figure out what
> all is being talked about here on this list. There are both marxist
> points of views, and nonmarxist views, being expressed on this list.
> And sometimes it is confusing to know just who is who, and which is
> which.
>
> Therefore, it might be good to approach the dialog here in the same way
> that one has to do with religion. One person's Christianity can
> oftentimes be another Christian's idea of unsalvable sin. As an
> atheist, I prefer to side with the Christian theology that has a more
> human aspect to it.
>
> As non-marxists, maybe this is the approach you might want to take until
> you can a better idea of the finer points of theology (no, make that
> marxism) being discussed. Just like there are major differences
> between the beliefs of religious people, there are also major
> differences amongst those of the marxian persuasion. Just carry a
> cross with you at all times.
>
> Best wishes, Tony
> ________________________________
>
> Hello everyone,
> I would like to make a couple of comments about
> marxism and common sense etc.
> First of all I am not a marxist, even so I share
> a lot of the same values that most marxists I've come across have. One
> reason I do not think that I will ever be a marxist is that I simply
> don't understand what you are talking about sometimes. Also, as Tom was
> saying, I sometimes get a sense of
> arrogance, that seems to shut the door on any alternative
> views on the matter.
> I realize that on this list we are supposedly
> discussing the crash and what kind of societal structures we need to
> cope with, prevent, or lessen such an occurrence[ at least I think
> that's what we are doing, if I'm wrong or missing something please tell
> me]. So we are definetly not writing to convince the public at large, as
> of yet. However, if we are to change the world, so to speak, we must at
> some point be able to express our views to a much wider audience and be
> convincing to that audience. Now I'm certainly not the most educated or
> well read, or most intelligent person around. But I do spend an
> inordinate amount of time,compared to the average person, thinking and
> reading about our society and its problems and how I would like to see
> things be instead, and how maybe that could be done. What I'm saying is,
> that if I find your arguments hard to follow and I spend the kind of
> time I do on this type of thing, how on earth are you going to be able
> to communicate with the average person who works 8-12hrs a day and has
> kids to deal with, along with many other things. These people are going
> to tune you out almost immediately unless you [we] are able to speak in
> clear and straight forward terms that does not also deteriorate into
> mere slogans.
> Please don't think I'm attacking anyone in particular,
> this has just been something I've noticed with marxists on several
> lists, as well as in person. I've also found this among economists, who
> like to refer to statistical models in the tenth dimension which only 10
> other people in the world can understand. Of course most economists are
> happy with the status quo so it suites their needs to speak in
> impenetrable terms. That way no one is qualified to dispute them. Since
> we on this list are not here defending the status quo, it would benefit
> us to make our arguments more accessible.
> I guess I simply am venting some of my frustration at
> what I see as fairly simple arguments being wrapped up in language that
> has no other purpose than to make the writer feel intelligent and the
> rest of us feel confused or dumb or both. Until recently I thought this
> was mainly the domain of post modernists.
>
> Sincerely, Aaron.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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