Hi Martin, So, the PCxxx classes are a just a contortion of properties. I guess they are useful only because rdfs and owl do not accept properties as domains. There are other practical uses of them ?
Since I do not care much about RDF, the tuples in my database are something like: <id> <subjectId> <predicateId> <.1 predicateQualifierId> <object> <provenanceId> If the <object> is a crm:E62_String, then I have also <language>. If the <object> is a crm:E60_Number or a crm:E61_Time_Primitive, I also have <relatorId> (e.g. =, <= etc. circa, ante, nonpost etc.) and <measurementUnitId>. Thus every predicate can have at least one .1 property. But I also can say (simplified): <#1> <#EiffelTower> <#P43_has_dimension> <#height> <#circa> "300" <#m> <#me:2016-02-04> <#2> <#1> <#isDoubtful> "true" <#me:2016-02-04> When I will have to (when ?), I hope I will be able to do a decent json-ld serialization. It is (too) heretical ? Dan On 3 February 2016 at 22:37, martin <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Dan, > > The "PCXXX" classes are exactly the suitable formalism you ask for., > graph-topologically equivalent to the reification. > We must not confuse the syntactic pattern, which is the same for the PCXXX > solution, the annotation > and the reification, with the intended meaning ;-) . > > Cheers, > > Martin > > > On 3/2/2016 8:58 μμ, Dan Matei wrote: > >> Despite the fact that I'm always told that reification is not recomanded, >> I decided to "piser contre le vent" :-) >> >> Functionally, the reification is just natural. Proof: the "invention" of >> .1 properties in CRM. >> >> Aaa, if the formalisms we have do not handle it well, please invent a >> suitable formalism, my dear friends. >> >> Dan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Dan Matei >> consultant (documentaristică, biblioteci digitale), >> Fundația Gellu Naum, >> [Institutul Național al Patrimoniului] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: martin <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 20:09:26 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Modelling .1 properties >> >> Dear Simon, >>> >>> Our messages crossed, your analysis is correct! We have discussed >>> however, that reification or annotation is not recommended, rather an >>> introduction of a node (class) representing a triary property rather than >>> an individual entity. From the existence of an instance of >>> PC14_carried_out_by we can automatically infer >>> the instance of P14, as described in the formalization. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> martin >>> >>> On 3/2/2016 7:55 μμ, Simon Spero wrote: >>> >>>> The first order formalization given in the crm document are: >>>> >>>> P14(x,y,z) ⊃ [P14(x,y) ∧ E55(z)] >>>> >>>> Note that the predicate on the left hand side has three arguments, >>>> which is more arguments than rdf is comfortable with. >>>> >>>> The "in the role of" property is modifying an instance of a "carried >>>> out by" property. >>>> An activity can be carried out by several different agents, each in a >>>> different role, so the property cannot be attached directly to the >>>> activity. >>>> >>>> There are several possible ways of representing this using semantic >>>> web tools. >>>> >>>> The first approach is to use RDF reification. I am not going to say >>>> anything more about this. >>>> >>>> If you are using OWL 2, you can add an annotation each "carried out >>>> by" property assertion. This is not ideal, as annotations are not >>>> really supposed to be part of the data in the model, and most >>>> reasoners ignore them. They are also not easy to work with in RDF. >>>> >>>> A third approach is to define your own class for reification, >>>> representing an instance of a "carrying out" ; this class would have >>>> properties relating the activity, the agent, and the role. >>>> >>>> The best approach may be to define a sub property of P14 for each type >>>> of carrying out in a role which is relevant to your model. >>>> You can specify the role associated with all uses of this property >>>> using a property whose subject is the subproperty. >>>> >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> On Feb 3, 2016 10:01 AM, "Allison Miller" >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I wish to use the CIDOC CRM but need a formal model to do so and >>>> have a question concerning .1 properties. >>>> >>>> eg. E7 Activity has: P14 carried out by (performed): E39 Actor and >>>> (P14.1 in the role of: E55 Type) >>>> >>>> It is a property I need to use - but I can’t work out how to model >>>> it! >>>> >>>> I thought I could use the Erlangen OWL implementation, but I can’t >>>> find these properties in it. (That’s not to claim they aren’t >>>> there, my knowledge of OWL is limited.) >>>> >>>> I would welcome any guidance on P14.1, and other .1 properties, in >>>> the Erlangen implementation, or advice on including them in a >>>> definition compatible with Semantic Web technologies if anyone has >>>> done this. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> Alli >>>> >>>> E-mail: [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> Web: www.sysemia.com <http://www.sysemia.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sysemia Limited >>>> >>>> The Innovation Centre, Bristol & Bath Science Park, Dirac >>>> Crescent, Emerson's Green, Bristol BS16 7FR >>>> >>>> Registered in England and Wales. 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Sysemia Ltd have taken >>>> reasonable steps to minimise this risk, but we advise that any >>>> attachments are virus checked before they are opened. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | >>> Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | >>> | Email: [email protected] | >>> | >>> Center for Cultural Informatics | >>> Information Systems Laboratory | >>> Institute of Computer Science | >>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | >>> | >>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | >>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | >>> | >>> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | > Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | > | Email: [email protected] | > | > Center for Cultural Informatics | > Information Systems Laboratory | > Institute of Computer Science | > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | > | > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | > | > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Matei consultant (documentaristică, biblioteci digitale), Fundația Gellu Naum, [Institutul Național al Patrimoniului]
