Dear Simon,
Of course reification is natural. The argument of the Group against
reification for the .1 properties is the confusion of agency:
Reification is a statement about a statement. It implies an agent
different from the statement it is about.
A CIDOC CRM knowledge base must have a defauflt provenance "who says
it". The .1 properties do not have a
different source of knowledge. Using the reification just because of a
lack of RDFS of typed relations is, to my
opinion, a hack. It confuses ontology with syntax. The difference
becomes important when we describe annotations to argue about
possibly different believes, i.e., when the default actor of the
knowledge base makes statements about other's
believes or sources of knowledge. We came to this conclusion after
studying the logic of shortcuts.
Would that make sense :-) ?
Best,
Martin
On 3/2/2016 11:47 μμ, Simon Spero wrote:
There is generally no problem with reification qua reification!
The CRM is committed to reification in its model of actions and
events. See Davidson's "The Logical Form of Action Sentences" [1] for
the paper that made this approach dominant. It's worth a read.
The collection "Essays on Action and Events" [2] collects other
related papers; for commentary see [3] - mostly for Quine's essay on
identity conditions for events to which Davidson is replying in the
second edition of [2]. Identity is one of the things that requires
consideration when considering reification.
-----
What is usually being objected to specifically is "RDF reification".
This facility consists of a class called rdf:Statement, together with
the properties - subject, predicate, and object.
The mechanism that is provided is pretty awful.
Here is a reified statement.
_:x a rdf:Statement,
rdf:subject :foo,
rdf:predicate :property,
rdf:object :bar .
This does *not* entail
:foo :property :bar.
--------
[1]
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic638346.files/Davidson1967.pdf
[2]
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/0199246270.001.0001/acprof-9780199246274
[3]
https://books.google.com/books/about/Actions_and_Events.html?id=Tjl6QgAACAAJ&source=kp_cover
On Feb 3, 2016 2:02 PM, "Dan Matei" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Despite the fact that I'm always told that reification is not
recomanded, I decided to "piser contre le vent" :-)
Functionally, the reification is just natural. Proof: the
"invention" of .1 properties in CRM.
Aaa, if the formalisms we have do not handle it well, please
invent a suitable formalism, my dear friends.
Dan
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Matei
consultant (documentaristică, biblioteci digitale),
Fundația Gellu Naum,
[Institutul Național al Patrimoniului]
-----Original Message-----
From: martin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 20:09:26 +0200
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Modelling .1 properties
> Dear Simon,
>
> Our messages crossed, your analysis is correct! We have discussed
> however, that reification or annotation is not recommended,
rather an
> introduction of a node (class) representing a triary property
rather than
> an individual entity. From the existence of an instance of
> PC14_carried_out_by we can automatically infer
> the instance of P14, as described in the formalization.
>
> All the best,
>
> martin
>
> On 3/2/2016 7:55 μμ, Simon Spero wrote:
> >
> > The first order formalization given in the crm document are:
> >
> > P14(x,y,z) ⊃ [P14(x,y) ∧ E55(z)]
> >
> > Note that the predicate on the left hand side has three arguments,
> > which is more arguments than rdf is comfortable with.
> >
> > The "in the role of" property is modifying an instance of a
"carried
> > out by" property.
> > An activity can be carried out by several different agents,
each in a
> > different role, so the property cannot be attached directly to the
> > activity.
> >
> > There are several possible ways of representing this using
semantic
> > web tools.
> >
> > The first approach is to use RDF reification. I am not going
to say
> > anything more about this.
> >
> > If you are using OWL 2, you can add an annotation each
"carried out
> > by" property assertion. This is not ideal, as annotations are not
> > really supposed to be part of the data in the model, and most
> > reasoners ignore them. They are also not easy to work with in RDF.
> >
> > A third approach is to define your own class for reification,
> > representing an instance of a "carrying out" ; this class
would have
> > properties relating the activity, the agent, and the role.
> >
> > The best approach may be to define a sub property of P14 for
each type
> > of carrying out in a role which is relevant to your model.
> > You can specify the role associated with all uses of this property
> > using a property whose subject is the subproperty.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > On Feb 3, 2016 10:01 AM, "Allison Miller"
> > <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I wish to use the CIDOC CRM but need a formal model to do
so and
> > have a question concerning .1 properties.
> >
> > eg. E7 Activity has: P14 carried out by (performed): E39
Actor and
> > (P14.1 in the role of: E55 Type)
> >
> > It is a property I need to use - but I can’t work out how
to model it!
> >
> > I thought I could use the Erlangen OWL implementation, but
I can’t
> > find these properties in it. (That’s not to claim they aren’t
> > there, my knowledge of OWL is limited.)
> >
> > I would welcome any guidance on P14.1, and other .1
properties, in
> > the Erlangen implementation, or advice on including them in a
> > definition compatible with Semantic Web technologies if
anyone has
> > done this.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Alli
> >
> > E-mail: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> > <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >
> > Web: www.sysemia.com <http://www.sysemia.com>
<http://www.sysemia.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > Sysemia Limited
> >
> > The Innovation Centre, Bristol & Bath Science Park, Dirac
> > Crescent, Emerson's Green, Bristol BS16 7FR
> >
> > Registered in England and Wales. Company Number: 7555456
> >
> > DISCLAIMER
> >
> > Information contained in this e-mail is intended for the
use of
> > the addressee only, and is confidential and may also be
> > privileged. If you receive this message in error, please
advise us
> > immediately. If you are not the intended recipient(s),
please note
> > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this
> > communication or the information in it is strictly
prohibited and
> > may be unlawful. Attachments to this e-mail may contain
software
> > viruses which may damage your systems. Sysemia Ltd have taken
> > reasonable steps to minimise this risk, but we advise that any
> > attachments are virus checked before they are opened.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Crm-sig mailing list
> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Crm-sig mailing list
> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625
<tel:%2B30%282810%29391625> |
> Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638
<tel:%2B30%282810%29391638> |
> | Email: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> |
> |
> Center for Cultural Informatics |
> Information Systems Laboratory |
> Institute of Computer Science |
> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
> |
> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
> |
> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: [email protected] |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
--------------------------------------------------------------
