Hi Simon,

On 3 February 2016 at 23:47, Simon Spero <[email protected]> wrote:

> The mechanism that is provided is pretty awful.
>
Agree :-)

> Here is a reified statement.
>
> _:x a rdf:Statement,
>      rdf:subject :foo,
>      rdf:predicate :property,
>      rdf:object :bar .
>
> This does *not* entail
> :foo :property :bar.
>
Yes, but if I understand that this entails :foo :property :bar, I can also
teach my software to understand also :-)

Dan

> --------
>
> [1]
> http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic638346.files/Davidson1967.pdf
>
> [2]
> http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/0199246270.001.0001/acprof-9780199246274
>
> [3]
> https://books.google.com/books/about/Actions_and_Events.html?id=Tjl6QgAACAAJ&source=kp_cover
> On Feb 3, 2016 2:02 PM, "Dan Matei" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Despite the fact that I'm always told that reification is not recomanded,
>> I decided to "piser contre le vent" :-)
>>
>> Functionally, the reification is just natural. Proof: the "invention" of
>> .1 properties in CRM.
>>
>> Aaa, if the formalisms we have do not handle it well, please invent a
>> suitable formalism, my dear friends.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dan Matei
>> consultant (documentaristică, biblioteci digitale),
>> Fundația Gellu Naum,
>> [Institutul Național al Patrimoniului]
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: martin <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 20:09:26 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Modelling .1 properties
>>
>> > Dear Simon,
>> >
>> > Our messages crossed, your analysis is correct! We have discussed
>> > however, that reification or annotation is not recommended, rather an
>> > introduction of a node (class) representing a triary property rather
>> than
>> > an individual entity. From the existence of an instance of
>> > PC14_carried_out_by we can automatically infer
>> > the instance of P14, as described in the formalization.
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > martin
>> >
>> > On 3/2/2016 7:55 μμ, Simon Spero wrote:
>> > >
>> > > The first order formalization  given in the crm document are:
>> > >
>> > > P14(x,y,z) ⊃ [P14(x,y) ∧ E55(z)]
>> > >
>> > > Note that the predicate on the left hand side has three arguments,
>> > > which is more arguments than rdf is comfortable with.
>> > >
>> > > The "in the role of" property is modifying an instance of a "carried
>> > > out by" property.
>> > > An activity can be carried out by several different agents, each in a
>> > > different role, so the property cannot be attached directly to the
>> > > activity.
>> > >
>> > > There are several possible ways of representing this using semantic
>> > > web tools.
>> > >
>> > > The first approach is to use RDF reification. I am not going to say
>> > > anything more about this.
>> > >
>> > > If you are using OWL 2, you can add an annotation each "carried out
>> > > by" property assertion.  This is not ideal, as annotations are not
>> > > really supposed to be part of the data in the model, and most
>> > > reasoners ignore them. They are also not easy to work with in RDF.
>> > >
>> > > A third approach is to define your own class for reification,
>> > > representing an instance of a "carrying out" ; this class would have
>> > > properties relating the activity, the agent, and the role.
>> > >
>> > > The best approach may be to define a sub property of P14 for each type
>> > > of carrying out in a role which is relevant to your model.
>> > > You can specify the role associated with all uses of this property
>> > > using a property whose subject is the subproperty.
>> > >
>> > > Simon
>> > >
>> > > On Feb 3, 2016 10:01 AM, "Allison Miller"
>> > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >     Hello,
>> > >
>> > >     I wish to use the CIDOC CRM but need a formal model to do so and
>> > >     have a question concerning .1 properties.
>> > >
>> > >     eg. E7 Activity has: P14 carried out by (performed): E39 Actor and
>> > >     (P14.1 in the role of: E55 Type)
>> > >
>> > >     It is a property I need to use - but I can’t work out how to
>> model it!
>> > >
>> > >     I thought I could use the Erlangen OWL implementation, but I can’t
>> > >     find these properties in it. (That’s not to claim they aren’t
>> > >     there, my knowledge of OWL is limited.)
>> > >
>> > >     I would welcome any guidance on P14.1, and other .1 properties, in
>> > >     the Erlangen implementation, or advice on including them in a
>> > >     definition compatible with Semantic Web technologies if anyone has
>> > >     done this.
>> > >
>> > >     Kind regards,
>> > >
>> > >     Alli
>> > >
>> > >     E-mail: [email protected]
>> > >     <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > >
>> > >     Web: www.sysemia.com <http://www.sysemia.com/>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >     Sysemia Limited
>> > >
>> > >     The Innovation Centre, Bristol & Bath Science Park, Dirac
>> > >     Crescent, Emerson's Green, Bristol BS16 7FR
>> > >
>> > >     Registered in England and Wales. Company Number: 7555456
>> > >
>> > >     DISCLAIMER
>> > >
>> > >     Information contained in this e-mail is intended for the use of
>> > >     the addressee only, and is confidential and may also be
>> > >     privileged. If you receive this message in error, please advise us
>> > >     immediately. If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note
>> > >     that any form of distribution, copying or use of this
>> > >     communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and
>> > >     may be unlawful. Attachments to this e-mail may contain software
>> > >     viruses which may damage your systems. Sysemia Ltd have taken
>> > >     reasonable steps to minimise this risk, but we advise that any
>> > >     attachments are virus checked before they are opened.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >     _______________________________________________
>> > >     Crm-sig mailing list
>> > >     [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > >     http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Crm-sig mailing list
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >   Dr. Martin Doerr              |  Vox:+30(2810)391625        |
>> >   Research Director             |  Fax:+30(2810)391638        |
>> >                                 |  Email: [email protected] |
>> >                                                               |
>> >                 Center for Cultural Informatics               |
>> >                 Information Systems Laboratory                |
>> >                  Institute of Computer Science                |
>> >     Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   |
>> >                                                               |
>> >                 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,             |
>> >                  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece               |
>> >                                                               |
>> >               Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl           |
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
>
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Matei
consultant (documentaristică, biblioteci digitale),
Fundația Gellu Naum,
[Institutul Național al Patrimoniului]

Reply via email to