It's up to the companies to supply a list of prerequisites of what they need from the candidates. These companies don't need to understand the technical terms. They just need to check that the technologies and experience listed on your CV is close enough to what the companies require.
The fault would lie with the hiring company for being to general in what they want. For example, a company would say they need 2 years of J2EE experience instead of saying they need 2 years of experience using JBOSS/Websphere, EJB, Struts, Servlets, JSP, JSF, etc). There's far too many technologies out there and their jobs are to make sure that you're not some pyscho-programmer waiting to take out his development team when he/she gets hired with a dodgy past robbing banks when you're trying to be placed into Standard Bank as an Oracle admin. You CANNOT blame them as they're only middlemen. That's why it's important that your CV isn't too vague when you're mentioning the technologies you use and the experience and skill levels associated with those technologies. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] on behalf of Java Mad Sent: Wed 2/15/2006 10:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed Communicate and Datafin only have HR experience When you go there and you mention a IT term they say "What....please explian...im not really in IT" Silly how you can hire a third party that doesnt no nething about IT to get a shortlist of candidates Antoine Fortuine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi. I changed jobs about a year ago and I must admit that jobs aren't really advertised by the companies doing the hiring. You actually need to go to a recruitment agency like Datafin or Communicate who seem to get all the business in Cape Town. They do seem to advertise in the Jobmail (which is how I found out about Datafin) but most of the jobs seem to land on these companies desks instead of being advertised by the actual company recruiting. I think companies prefer to have candidates screened by a third party (to avoid the chancers out there) before doing the actual interview because it takes time and money to do the interview process and not many companies have good enough HR departments to do the hiring for them. So if you're a man on the street ... best advice I can give you is to join one of these agencies and see if they can't help you out. They may even find a non-Java job that could help you get into the IT industry itself. Regards, Antoine -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] on behalf of Dr Heinz M. Kabutz Sent: Tue 2/14/2006 8:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed Hi Johan, great analysis of the problem - thanks! I have found that in Cape Town the good Java jobs seldom get advertised. Instead, they are filled using word-of-mouth recommendations, or "cliques" and "clubs" as you suggest. We probably cannot change Cape Town. But maybe we can change the way we operate as a Java User Group? Kind regards from Heinz -- Dr. Heinz M. Kabutz (Maximum Solutions) Sun Java Champion Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter" Tel: +27 (83) 340-5633 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Johan Steyn Sent: 14 February 2006 20:11 To: [email protected] Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed Heinz and ctJUG, Heck, I would not work for EUR 1000 a month. I would rather go to Ireland and earn EUR 8000 a month... OK, I'm biting now... before everyone packs up and leaves for Ireland, where the grass *is* greener, but mainly due to the persistent rainfall - and the soggy, grey weather that accompanies it :) I haven't tried the job market here since I moved to Ireland from Cape Town almost 5 years ago. Guess I'm happy with my position and the fact that I can work in jeans and T-shirt here at Sun (most other companies wouldn't allow it, so I regard it as a perk), while working on technical stuff. But I seriously doubt there are many jobs available for EUR 8000 a month. I would be *very* much happier with that kind of money, and I closely match the requirements Heinz listed. Maybe you could earn that much as a short-term contractor, or at a company that got so much venture capital they don't know what to do with it. I don't know, but it is certainly waaay above the average salary for Java programmers. Finding a job without prior experience is also near impossible - similar to the situation Heinz desciribed in Cape Town - experienced, "good" programmers can earn a fairly good salary, but there are good graduates who can't find work. I earn far less than EUR 8000 per month here, whilst in South Africa I earned many multitudes of R1000 per month and never had a problem finding work. With the cost of living in Ireland, including ridiculous monthly rentals, I am actually able to save about the same every month as I did in South Africa. I have not been able to get my little toe on the property ladder, and I don't think I can whilst paying extortionist monthly rent for a tiny apartment. So I am certainly not rolling in money here. Ireland has become a very expensive city - one of the most expensive in the world, after having been regarded as somewhat of a backward town before the Celtic Tiger phenomenon. Remember how the characters in The Commitments described themselves? For many years people left Ireland to look for work - many Irish went to Southern Africa. The Irish economy was dead and taxes were high. Things changed in the 90's, mostly due to the global economy and Ireland's geographic position and having English as the most widely spoken language. These make it very attractive to American multinationals - especially with the added benefit of tax incentives (for companies, not workers) However, things are changing again: many IT jobs are now moving out of Ireland to the new EU countries, Russia and further (India and China). American companies no longer regard Ireland as an affordable source of IT skills - they are more after the tax incentives than the skills pool. Besides, I know some very good South African programmers and some pretty mundane Irish programmers. My opinion is that Dublin is over-rated, and it is due for a correction. I think that South Africa's industrial base provides a far stronger economic foundation than the bubble economy of Ireland. When I joined Sun Ireland, there were 4 other South Africans: I am the only one left here. 2 others moved back to Cape Town, 1 moved to Australia, and one was riffed but remained here since he has been here more more that 20 years already and his family is here. So, Ireland might be greener, but it ain't necessarily rosier ;) So why did I leave, and why am I still staying? Well, that would be a loong email, which I won't bore you with now unless you are *really* curious. But I'd like to add an observation... clique: A small exclusive group of friends or associates Cape Town is extremely cliquey, and *who* you know is more relevant that *what*you know. Being originally from Zimbabwe, and therefor an immigrant in both SA and Ireland, I have to say that Cape Town and Ireland both suffer from it much more than, for example Gauteng (where I lived longer than both Cape Town and Ireland). Capetonians have a love affair with clubs and societies, and outsiders are made to *feel* like outsiders. I experienced it at UCT and later in local Cape Town companies. Did you go to Westerford? Or (even better) Bishops? Which suburb do you come from? Are you an Ikey or a Matie? Do you belong to a golf club perhaps? What about the (men only) OWL club? Oh, you still have the old tie - fabulous! The job is yours! The problem is that for those who are made to feel like outsiders, it is very easy to mistake it for racism or sexism, which it sometimes is, but not necessarily so. But whether it is or not, cliqueness is damaging to individuals, teh IT industry and ultimately to society itself. In summary, the problem that Heinz mentioned about the IT industry in Cape Town can improve if: * Jobs relied purely on merit - not race, gender, or any or form of clique * Graduates had more opportunities to gain experience Johan. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
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