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...and when you say you want to work with Java,
they say "Yes, _javascript_ is one of the skills our client is looking
for"...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:27
AM
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer
needed
Communicate and Datafin only have HR experience
When you go there and you mention a IT term they say "What....please
explian...im not really in IT"
Silly how you can hire a third party that doesnt no nething about IT to
get a shortlist of candidates Antoine Fortuine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi.
I
changed jobs about a year ago and I must admit that jobs aren't really
advertised by the companies doing the hiring.
You actually need to go
to a recruitment agency like Datafin or Communicate who seem to get all the
business in Cape Town.
They do seem to advertise in the Jobmail
(which is how I found out about Datafin) but most of the jobs seem to land
on these companies desks instead of being advertised by the actual company
recruiting. I think companies prefer to have candidates screened by a third
party (to avoid the chancers out there) before doing the actual interview
because it takes time and money to do the interview process and not many
companies have good enough HR departments to do the hiring for
them.
So if you're a man on the street ... best advice I can give you
is to join one of these agencies and see if they can't help you out. They
may even find a non-Java job that could help you get into the IT industry
itself.
Regards,
Antoine
-----Original
Message-----
From: [email protected] on behalf of Dr Heinz M.
Kabutz
Sent: Tue 2/14/2006 8:23 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer
needed
Hi Johan,
great analysis of the problem -
thanks!
I have found that in Cape Town the good Java jobs seldom get
advertised.
Instead, they are filled using word-of-mouth recommendations,
or "cliques"
and "clubs" as you suggest.
We probably cannot change
Cape Town. But maybe we can change the way we
operate as a Java User
Group?
Kind regards from
Heinz
--
Dr. Heinz M. Kabutz
(Maximum Solutions)
Sun Java Champion
Author of "The Java(tm)
Specialists' Newsletter"
Tel: +27
(83) 340-5633
-----Original Message-----
From:
[email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Johan Steyn
Sent: 14
February 2006 20:11
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CTJUG
Forum] Re: Java Developer needed
Heinz and
ctJUG,
Heck, I would not work for EUR 1000 a month. I would
rather go to
Ireland and earn EUR 8000 a month...
OK, I'm biting
now... before everyone packs up and leaves for Ireland,
where the grass
*is* greener,
but mainly due to the persistent rainfall - and the soggy,
grey weather
that accompanies it :)
I haven't tried the job market
here since I moved to Ireland from Cape
Town almost 5 years ago.
Guess
I'm happy with my position and the fact that I can work in jeans
and
T-shirt here at Sun
(most other companies wouldn't allow it, so I
regard it as a perk), while
working on technical stuff.
But I
seriously doubt there are many jobs available for EUR 8000 a month.
I
would be *very* much happier with that kind of money, and I closely
match
the requirements Heinz listed.
Maybe you could earn that much as a
short-term contractor, or at a company
that got so much
venture
capital they don't know what to do with it. I don't know, but it
is
certainly waaay above the average salary
for Java programmers.
Finding a job without prior experience is also near
impossible - similar
to the
situation Heinz desciribed in Cape Town - experienced, "good"
programmers
can earn a fairly good
salary, but there are good
graduates who can't find work.
I earn far less than EUR 8000 per
month here, whilst in South Africa I
earned many multitudes of
R1000
per month and never had a problem finding work. With the cost of
living in
Ireland, including ridiculous
monthly rentals, I am actually
able to save about the same every month as
I did in South Africa.
I
have not been able to get my little toe on the property ladder, and
I
don't think I can whilst paying
extortionist monthly rent for a tiny
apartment. So I am certainly not
rolling in money here.
Ireland
has become a very expensive city - one of the most expensive in
the
world, after having been
regarded as somewhat of a backward town before
the Celtic Tiger
phenomenon. Remember how the
characters in The
Commitments described themselves? For many years people
left Ireland to
look
for work - many Irish went to Southern Africa. The Irish economy was
dead
and taxes were high.
Things changed in the 90's, mostly due to
the global economy and Ireland's
geographic position and
having
English as the most widely spoken language. These make it very
attractive
to American
multinationals - especially with the added benefit of tax
incentives (for
companies, not workers)
However, things are
changing again: many IT jobs are now moving out of
Ireland to the new EU
countries,
Russia and further (India and China). American companies no
longer regard
Ireland as an affordable
source of IT skills - they are
more after the tax incentives than the
skills pool. Besides, I know
some
very good South African programmers and some pretty mundane
Irish
programmers.
My opinion is that Dublin is over-rated, and it
is due for a correction. I
think that South Africa's
industrial base
provides a far stronger economic foundation than the
bubble economy of
Ireland.
When I joined Sun Ireland, there were 4 other South Africans: I
am the
only one left here.
2 others moved back to Cape Town, 1 moved
to Australia, and one was riffed
but remained here
since he has been
here more more that 20 years already and his family is
here.
So,
Ireland might be greener, but it ain't necessarily rosier ;)
So why
did I leave, and why am I still staying?
Well, that would be a loong
email, which I won't bore you with now unless
you are *really*
curious.
But I'd like to add an observation...
clique: A small
exclusive group of friends or associates
Cape Town is extremely
cliquey, and *who* you know is more relevant that
*what*you
know.
Being originally from Zimbabwe, and therefor an immigrant in both
SA and
Ireland, I have to say
that Cape Town and Ireland both suffer
from it much more than, for example
Gauteng (where I
lived longer than
both Cape Town and Ireland).
Capetonians have a love affair with
clubs and societies, and outsiders are
made to *feel* like
outsiders.
I experienced it at UCT and later in local Cape Town
companies.
Did you go to Westerford?
Or (even better)
Bishops?
Which suburb do you come from?
Are you an Ikey or a
Matie?
Do you belong to a golf club perhaps?
What about the (men only)
OWL club?
Oh, you still have the old tie - fabulous! The job is
yours!
The problem is that for those who are made to feel like
outsiders, it is
very easy to mistake
it for racism or sexism, which
it sometimes is, but not necessarily so.
But whether it is or
not,
cliqueness is damaging to individuals, teh IT industry and
ultimately to
society itself.
In summary, the problem that Heinz
mentioned about the IT industry in Cape
Town can improve if:
* Jobs
relied purely on merit - not race, gender, or any or form of clique
*
Graduates had more opportunities to gain
experience
Johan.
Yahoo!
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