-Caveat Lector-
What constitutes "baiting"? While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals." Plus, all of the vile
and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary. In addition, I've
read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
Americans. Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
general. Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.
I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
possible. Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
disagree with. I don't think I've "baited" anyone. If anything, I have
been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.
I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
disguise!!! Ha ha...go figure! Yes, there is a similarity between the
two of us... And I do respect the man....even though I disagree with
everything he believes. I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
who think like he does....and I think I was making progress towards
showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
respect for property...the same things he values....
I'm not a white middle class American. I didn't go to an elitist
school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
twelve... I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
hungry...how many of you can say the same? Have you ever worked at a
factory? washed dishes to eat? worked in construction?
...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
strata..... We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
shovels. I understand his sense of betrayal and rage. He's my brother..
although I disagree with his views.
So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.
On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> May I second the motion. In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if
>one
> goes, they should all go.
> Jim norman
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
> > I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
> > All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
> > this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
> > spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
> > I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
> > in my opinion, that his posts..
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > William
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> >
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > I think you missed my earlier post. I'm not against the idea of states
> > > leaving the Union...per se.
> > >
> > > In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
> > > and complex. But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.
> > >
> > > Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
> > > point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
> > > For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
> > > slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
> > > would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
> > > free your slaves. However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
> > > owner ...and you were MY slave. You might have a completely different
> > > perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.
> > >
> > > If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
> > > you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
> > > chattel. Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
> > > wife.
> > > Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
> > > absolute lord and master over the Davis family. Your wife, your children,
> > > your lives would be held in my tender hands. Now, being a thinking and
> > > reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
> > > would object to this state of affairs. In fact, it might not be a legal
> > > or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
> > > issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
> > > and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
> > > the Constitution to your untutored ears.....and explain the finer points
> > > of the noble English Common Law tradition.... It would not surprise me
> > > that you might be unimpressed with the wisdom of my philsophy. Perhaps,
> > > you might even be emotional about it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Wm
> > >
> > > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:
> > >
> > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > >
> > > > William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > > >
> > > > > Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers and as
> > > > > politicians to serve and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
> > > > > They were bound by that oath not to work against the best interests of the
> > > > > nation.
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > > Yes, and they understood that the Constitution allowed states to seceed
> > > > from the union. They had also taken an oath to their state govenments
> > > > which governments preceeded the forming of the union. Lee, for instance,
> > > > would have been working against the best interests of his country
> > > > (Virginia) if he had taken command of the federal forces as had been
> > > > offered.
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > By taking up arms against their country, they were committing an
> > > > > act of treason.. Sorry if that offends some of you but that is a fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ****
> > > > Why should it offend me? I had no ancestor in the war except perhaps in
> > > > the federal army. I have lived in the south for many years, but people
> > > > still say I don't have an accent. I don't even like football. I just
> > > > have studied the history and have tried to understand the situation at
> > > > the time on the basis of law. I don't believe that you have. You are
> > > > just argueing from an emotional basis and not on any basis of law. My
> > > > understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
> > > > the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
> > > > stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
> > > > this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
> > > > ignored their oathes to the Constitution. That is my opinion from
> > > > studying the facts. If you have a rational arguement to disprove my
> > > > opinion, I am open to being corrected, but what you have provided so far
> > > > has not dealt with the issue in anything but a purely emotional manner.
> > > >
> > > > best wishes, Howard Davis
> > > >
> > > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
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> > > > Om
> > > >
> > >
> > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > > ==========
> > > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > > screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > > nazi's need not apply.
> > >
> > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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> > > Om
> > >
> >
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==========
> > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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> > Om
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
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> Om
>
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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