uaicvtmb wrote:
>
> I Hate to Break the "News" to you Dear, But, the Total Abortions jn one year
> alone - Just for America is over 5,000,000 Abortions. Then take the figues
> from around the
> world and add them to ours. That is Nothing to be proud off. The Holocost
> numbers
> were only 6,000,000.
This is a phony comarison. You are comparing the murder of living viable humans
with the termination of pregnancy. This is not only phony, but it shows your
ignorance of basic biological functions.
> After all the data that proves the "feotus" is indeed
> a "person"
> especially the "photo" of the little hand reaching out of a cizarian (sp)
> section - Murder
> is Still Murder in My Book. Not to mention The "Pro-Abortionists) as also
> Pro Mercy
> Killings. Thanks for your time. ~ Mike ~
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I don't know what
" data " you are referring to, but here is a little lesson in biology for
you.
This is from the same discussion on another list.
X wrote:
>
> J2> "...we are not talking about babies. We are
> talking about zygotes which are groups of cells, and fetuses which are
> potential humans until they become viable.
>
> Dear J2, the zygotes and fetuses are not POTENTIAL humans. They are humans in
> a stage of growth, which does not allow them to live outside their mother's
> body (until now...)
To call them humans is a speculative position. That's because if the potential
human survives its developmental stages to the point of reaching person hood,
that is , being a viable human, it is ONLY THEN that you can make the argument
above. That they, the zygotes and fetuses, are the developmental stages of a
human. In other words my zygote and fetus stage were the developmental stages of
a human because I have achieved human hood by virtue of survival. They are NOT
the developmental stages of a human if they don't develop into a human. They
are only masses of cells expelled from the body. This action is known as
spontaneous abortion. What is being expelled is not a baby.
This is not a difficult concept here. An egg is not a chicken, or a fish, or
a frog, or an alligator. It is only an egg. It has the potential to develop
into those things if nothing alters or prevents their developmental process.
So if a weasel comes along and eats the chicken egg, it didn't have a chicken
dinner. It ate an egg.
In case you haven't read a biology book lately, a certain amount of eggs
become fertilized and start mitosis ( the splitting of cells ) and are cells
which start developing into the next stage where by the sixth day after
conception the zygote either attaches itself to the uterine wall or doesn't.
For the first six days IT IS NOT A HUMAN. It has no heart, no nerves, no brain,
no lungs, not even a placenta. If it is SPONTANEOUSLY ABORTED at this point,
there was NEVER A HUMAN PRODUCED.
Over 30%, that's one out of three fertilizations end in spontaneous abortion
without anyone being aware of it. Now either god has a cruel sense of humor
and too many souls to play with, or this is a common and natural occurrence.
There are no humans involved here. These are the mechanical fuctions of biology.
If someone uses the RU 486 at this point, that is simply another reason for
this common outcome.
Then comes the embryonic stage.
The " late blastocyst " which is just a bunch of cells with a genetic blueprint
attaches itself to the wall of the uterus around the 12th day after conception
and begins to develop the tissues which will become the different systems of the
body. It has no heart, no nerves, no brain,
no lungs, etc. If it is SPONTANEOUSLY ABORTED at this point, there was NEVER
A HUMAN PRODUCED.
There are no humans involved here. These are the mechanical functions of
biology.
If someone uses the RU 486 at this point, that is simply another reason for
this common outcome.
By day 55 the BEGINNINGS of all external and internal structures are present.
If the EMBRYO is spontaneously or intententionally aborted, THERE HAS STILL NOT
BEEN A HUMAN BEING. What you have at this point is the rudimentary mechanics
which will develop into vital organs and systems necessary for becoming a
viable human being.
57 days after conception ( 8 weeks ) is the beginning of the fetal period.
The fetus IS NOT VIABLE at this stage until after 24 WEEKS.The lungs are not
developed and can not handle breathing. AFTER THIS POINT a fetus is considered
viable. It is ONLY at this point that one can begin
to argue about ethics of abortion because we are entering a gray area.
> The "group of cells" you mention has already all the genetical information of
> this particular human, that keeps growing as a fetus, baby, child, adult, old
> woman or man etc. This information will remain unchangeable until this person
> die - in th womb or after birth, in a very old age perhaps.
This is irrelevant. So does your hair have the genetic information. So what?
This is what I mean by Potential Human because it will develop according to the
genetic information IF NOTHING GOES AWRY. And many things can go awry including
the decision to abort the pregnancy.
> In three months
> all the organs are ready, and after that period they only attain perfection.
What are you trying to pull here? Ready for what? Which organs? The lungs won't
begin to function for another three months. You are basically twisting reality
here to sustain your point of view.
> However, some babies are born prematurely and live thanks to the progress of
> medical equipment. It seems that, according to your definition of "human",
> these babies become humans earlier than other babies.
Yes this is correct. Assuming that all else
is function able and functioning. Prior to this point you can not call this a
baby, or a person, or a pickle. What ever it is, it is in the body of a well
defined person with consciousness who is THE ONLY ONE WITH THE RIGHT TO DECIDE
WHAT TO DO WITH HER BODY and what is in her body.
> Once they are viable they are
> babies. I would never advocate harming babies".
>
> Of course you wouldn't, because you see them and you can't stand harming them.
> It would be very nice to have the same respect for zygotes too, because when
> you take the life of a zygote, there is no fetus, no baby, no "human". There
> is only death.
And you can make the same silly argument for pulling out your hair and losing
a nail, or the constant shedding of the outer layer of your skin. All of these
die. So what? That doesn't mean killing these cells make one a murderer.
> Zygotes and fetuses are not people. They are potential humans if they develop
> to completion and are able to survive outside the womb.
>
> I suggest you should think this for a second time. Babies cannot survive after
> womb by themselves, unless someone takes care of them. They are also not
> completed, e.g.just think of their cranium, and the fact they don't have
> teeth. Even when they have teeth, these are not the final ones. So according
> to this definition, babies are not humans as well?
I personally wouldn't make that argument, but some could. That's not the point
really. At this time the baby is no longer sharing the body of another
individual.
That individual no longer has the same power over the baby's body as when the
baby was inside her. That is why it is clear that when a mother kills her
baby after birth, it is murder, and is prosecuted as a murderer if caught.
Joshua2
========
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 6:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] "global gag rule"
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
> >
> >When the pro-abortionist were pushing for legal abortions they alleged
>
> >that 5,000 women died each year from unsafe abortions. Dr Bernard Nata-
>
> >son who was then an ateistic Jew and pro-abortion, did not believe that
>
> >number.
>
> One is too many.
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