On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 23:51:38 GMT
Aaron Sloman <a.slo...@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:

> I have recently converted my small laptop (11.6" Stonebook mini,
> re-badged Clevo W515LU) from Fedora 25 (no longer supported) to
> Fedora 27.

Hi Aaron,

At the end of this email I'll recommend what I really think best
suits what you've written that you want...

When you hitch your horse to Fedora, you're also hitching your horse to
systemd, dbus uber alles, Gnome, Wayland (from what you've said), and
all sorts of other monolithic entanglement. Some articles I've
read say Wayland itself requires systemd. Fedora's philosophy is 180
degrees contrary to the philosophy of ctwm.

Seriously, if you want to use Fedora, follow the easiest path and use
Gnome instead of ctwm.

[snip problems with keyboard in virtual terminal mode]

> 
> But when I switch to graphic mode (using startx, and stuff in
> ~/.xinitrc) some significant old functionality is lost and I can't
> find replacements. E.g. previously I could invoke the network
> selection panel using this in a ctwm menu
>     "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center network &"

You can run NetworkManager, or Wicd, or go oldschool with
wpa_supplicant to pick networks and the like. What I do on my
wired-only machines is run a shellscript that brings the network up
correctly. 

I suggest you switch to a sans-systemd distro like Void Linux or Devuan
or Funtoo, and then ask that community how best to handle your
networks. In general, if you're in for a penny (Gnome), you're in for a
pound (systemd), which is why I use very few Gnome apps.

> 
> but I have not been able to find anything equivalen relating to
> wayland, gnome's successor (with no successful way back that I've
> found).

I'm pretty sure Gnome and Wayland are two different things: Neither is
the others' successor. I'm pretty sure Fedora still has Gnome.
> 
> I have also found nothing equivalent to
>     "/usr/bin/control-center sound &"
> 
> which provided various level controls and a convenient test for left
> and right speakers.

A few shellscripts and a homegrown menu to invoke them substitutes for
whatever Gnome gave you. Seriously, speaker-test, aplay, amixer and
alsamixer pretty much do what you need. Gnome just puts slick epoxy
over them and provides a few sparse knobs for you to manipulate.

> 
> I can invoke pavucontrol, alsamixergui, and various other things from
> ctwm menus in F25, which fail in F27, either by doing nothing
> visible, or producing something unusable on the screen.

As far as pavucontrol, I'd recommend you try to remove Pulseaudio from
your system. It does very little that modern ALSA doesn't do. My
computer has alsamixer (text mode) and not alsamixergui, but all you
need to do is install alsamixergui or whatever your distro calls it,
and invoke it with a menu or shellscript.

> 
> Has any other ctwm user encountered any of these problems and found
> solutions?

Sort of, but because it's been years since I used a "we do it all for
you" distro, I'm pretty used to just invoking from menu or writing a
shellscript.

> 
> I have not found any documentation with a table of OLD-NEW
> equivalences, which any responsible development manager should
> provide when a major switch occurs.
> 
> Perhaps I just haven't given the right search keys. (I use fedora XFCE
> because it starts off light, and then add what I need).
> 
> Is anyone else on this list running wayland with ctwm on F27, or other
> wayland-based system. I wonder if I am the only ctwm user facing
> apparently insuperable difficulties.

I'm pretty sure it's not insuperable. You're just using a "we do it all
for you" distro, encumbered with massively monolithic entanglement,
along with the "do one thing and do it right" ctwm. You're fighting
Fedora. I'd suggest use Gnome or switch distros.

> I have wasted several days fighting this with limited success.

Yeah, I think you've been barking up the wrong tree.

Now here's what *I* recommend: Install, properly hotkey, and use dmenu
from Suckless Tools. It, plus a few simple home made shellscripts you
make, gives you all the stuff you asked for. See here for details:

http://troubleshooters.com/linux/ctwm/dmenu.htm

HTH,

SteveT

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