On 26/05/2023 07:03, Ansgar wrote:
On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 14:36 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Ansgar <ans...@43-1.org> writes:
Debian going out of its way to tell derivative users to switch back from
merged-/usr to split-/usr is the *opposite* of trying to make things as
smooth for them as possible.

Yes, I agree with that part and I think I objected to that at the time.
Nonetheless, one bad decision doesn't mean that it is Debian policy that
we don't care about derivatives or their users.  I think we made a mistake
there which is not in alignment with our ideals or our goals.  We should
try to reverse that mistake, not double down on it.

My impression is that the tech-ctte disagrees on this point and would
not want to reverse the mistake, but double down on it (in your words).

Your impression is incorrect. And assigning motivations to other parties during contentious discussions should be done with care if at all.

Consider: it is consistent to believe that it would have been better for dpkg not to have had that warning added (quite some time ago now), but that by now most derivatives that care will likely have patched it out again (mitigating the harm); and if the current work on dpkg is allowed to run its course then the warning will probably go away anyway.

Or rather my impression is that they would like to avoid any decision
on the dpkg mess situation. (Though not making a decision when asked is
of course also an explicit decision.)

There is currently a pile of ongoing work and discussion about /usr-merge and dpkg (in -devel at least). It seems to me that the right thing to do is to see how that work pans out, and let the people doing that work do so in peace.

So let me summarize Debian's "official" position as I understand it: we
do *NOT* care how dpkg's recommendations will break derivative
installations at all; if systems become unbootable, cause data loss,
... now or in the future that is explicitly fine.

This is also unhelpful (and incorrect). I do not think the case has been made that it is urgent that we remove (or revise) the warning from dpkg Right Now; if you want to attempt to do so, please do so without impugning those who disagree with you.



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