On Fri, Feb 13, 2026 at 11:54:37AM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Holger Levsen <[email protected]> writes:I own a framework 13 myself and this has a non-free firmware ("bios"), so no, you cannot install a libre system on itI am writing this on a Framework 13 installed using the Debian Libre images, so it works for me.
And you're still running the non-free firmware that came with it. You just decided to never upgrade it, and to live with its vulnerabilities and bugs until you choose to retire the machine.
That's not what I want to do.
There is no technical conflict in allowing that and ALSO allow users the freedom to update their non-free crap. Debian rejected that duality.
Did we actually forbid people from building their own Debian thing without non-free firmware? Or did we just not force the volunteers choosing to work on the updateable Debian that will run on user's mainstream devices to work on a second version of Debian that will only run on a tiny fraction of those machines?
I've upgraded the BIOS on this framework laptop using fwdupdmgr from Debian. I've installed the firmware-amd-graphics package to get better graphics. That is my decisions as a user, not a decision from Debian to put blobs into my installer images. That is the difference between user-controlled decisions and external subjugation.
Most users will choose an operating system that will run on their machine out of the box. Just that it's not going to be Debian.
We lost our role of technical leadership two decades ago. Then we scared off a sizeable part of our users by not releasing for years, and now we are annoying another sizeable part of our users by relasing too often, and now we need to reduce our user base even more by reducing the market share of hardware we will run on? Is this a marketing campaign for Ubuntu and Mint?
I am frustrated that Debian surrendered to non-free advocates, and I'm sure that frustration come out as "Debian is bad" and that this hurts. I am sorry for that. I felt hurt when the non-free-firmware decision were taken, and went on vacation from Debian and migrated to Trisquel. With Debian Libre I am exploring migrating back to Debian.
I am frustrated that people want to reduce our market share, and that people want our users to think that Debian is either "bad" or made by people who have kind of lost touch to the world.
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