Dan, while you make a good point, there is a balance to everything.

A couple of years ago I attended a MS security seminar in Irvine. They
brought up a very good point Security is like a triangle. The three points
are cost, function and safety. The point inside the triangle where your
security setting is extremely difficult to plot easily.

What I do is allow ICMP traffic to my DMZ servers from the Internet, and to
other servers by source, and to LAN only as needed.

John Tolmachoff
Engineer/Consultant/Owner
eServices For You


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Horne
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 11:08 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Fw: New Multiple Threat Lookup Database
test for
> Declude JunkMail
> 
> "a good admin will allow ICMP traffic through, *unless* they believe it to
> be a specific security risk"
> 
> Sorry, disagree there.  A *good* admin will recognize that ICMP *IS* a
> security risk.  It allows remote computers to build a map of your network
> and find out what IP addresses are valid.  While "security through
> obscurity" is not enough by itself, blocking ICMP traffic is pretty
standard
> practice these days.  ICMP is also used for many DOS attacks. Here is a
> quote from HACKING EXPOSED (which should be required reading for all
network
> admins, IMO):
> 
> "As discussed throughout this book, we reiterate that ICMP traffic is
> dangerous.  While ICMP serves a valuable diagnostic purpose, ICMP is
easily
> abused and is often the 'bullet' used for bandwidth consumption attacks."
> 
> And another:
> 
> "Ping sweeps (or ICMP ECHO packets) are only the tip of the iceberg when
it
> comes to ICMP information about a system.  You can gather all kinds of
> valuable information about a system by simply sending an ICMP packet to
it."
> 
> Now, in my configuration, I am able to block only incoming ICMP packets
> while allowing outgoing, so I was able to install without a problem.  Many
> admins do not have that option, though.
> 
> -Dan Horne
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R. Scott Perry
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 1:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Fw: New Multiple Threat Lookup Database
test
> for Declude JunkMail
> 
> [Responding to two posts]
> 
> >So - if some dial-up/dynamic PC gets infected, that IP address will
> >likely be assigned to someone else who happens to connect tomorrow?  Is
> >your test eliminating any "dial-up/dynamic" IPs, since by definition
> >the infected/spam workstation will change IPs?
> 
> But, by definition, those IPs are guaranteed to be dynamic -- and
therefore
> shouldn't be sending E-mail directly, without the assistance of an MTA.
> 
> >How do you account for businesses using Internet gateways, firewalls,
> >NAT routers etc where one IP address could feasible represent a large
> >number of different workstations?
> 
> If a business has infected computers, and the business allows those
infected
> computers to send out viruses through the firewall on the same IP that
> outgoing legitimate E-mail goes on, they have serious problems.  They
would
> need to fix the problems, and request removal of their IP.
> 
>  > Considering that most administrators will block ANY TCP/IP traffic
> from/to a  > server and only open exactly those 2 or 3 ports that are
needed
> for its  > primary function, you can assume that trying to "ping" will not
> be permitted  > - thus preventing install.
> 
> Not true -- a good admin will allow ICMP traffic through, *unless* they
> believe it to be a specific security risk.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, when people ask me for assistance regarding troubles
> reaching a computer and I can't ping it, I tell them that it can't be
> pinged, and they have to take care of it from there.  If you disable a
vital
> networking tool, you need to accept the consequences.
> 
> On the other hand, I don't believe an install program should need to use
> ICMP traffic, and I have passed this information on to the developer of
the
> install program.
> 
>                                                     -Scott
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