On 5 June 2011 19:13, Neven MacEwan <ne...@mwk.co.nz> wrote: > My 2 cents worth for someone looking at Web Dev now > > Options > 1. Go with the mindless horde (M$, C# .NET) > 2. Go with the alternative mindless horde (ROR) > 3. Go for the Money (Java) > 4. Go alternative (PHP) > > I never used Delphi for PHP but highly recommend Nusphere PHPed as a Delphi > like IDE and with 5+ you can write delphi like OO code
> There are numerous 'frameworks' you can use but as functionality is moving > back to the client AJAX and jQuery are probably your best bet whilst HTML5 > takes hold I'll make that 4c "> Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time saving. " - quoting myself :) I'd re-emphasize that, unless there is a compelling reason to use a framework (like its a perfect match for what you are doing) - or someone feels they just have to have one to get started, jQuery and do your own back ends in php (that can include using aspects of m/any frameworks as they are useful). Like many of the available DOM/JavaScript libraries, jQuery really handles Ajax calls and display of new data, very well. For the most part jQuery is kept up-to-date - if you link to the latest version, and if you choose your plug-ins carefully and keep them up-to-date with authors' releases, they will pretty silently step you though the HTML 5 issues as they unfold - cross browser, often with graceful fall backs when possible. Paul > > Neven > > There are plenty of benchmarks out there showing that PHP isn’t exactly a > race horse: > > > > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php > > http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html > > > > But that said, php is plenty fast enough to easily handle a couple of > *thousand webpage requests per minute* on a decent web server. That’s > usually fast enough for most websites … and if you are some big-outfit that > has to scale well beyond that limit then you could just loadbalance between > multiple servers and/or take facebooks hiphop project and cross compile your > PHP to much faster C-code (https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php). > > > > I choose C# over PHP for other much more important reasons - speed isn’t the > issue. > > > > Stefan > > > > > > From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On > Behalf Of Rohit Gupta > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:07 PM > To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List > Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development > > > > I dont find PHP slow at all. > > On 5/06/2011 2:20 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: > > Paul. A very informative reply thanks. Gary also suggested PHP but I have > always discounted it as slow and cumbersome. However reading through some of > the blurb suggests that it may gave come a long way in recent years. > > > > I'm very familiar with HTML and somewhat familiar with small JavaScript > pieces (MS-CRM mods). So these languages don't really phase me but the > thought of learning another language like Ruby was robbing me of sleep. I > have about a dozen languages under my belt but anyone is really only fully > conversant in up to 2. I remember when I was 6 years old I spoke 3 spoken > languages fluently but can only manage a little French, some small German > and still learning Chinese, but Gaelic has totally disappeared from my > vocabulary. Its the same with programming, without regular use, other > languages tend to leave the mind (we leak memory all over the place). > > > > However it does look like PHP might be an interesting prospect. I was > seriously looking at C# as well but wanted something I could use sooner than > the learning curve would require. > > > > Thanks again. I'll take a good strong look over the next few weeks. > > > > Steve > > > > On 5/06/2011, at 12:32 PM, Paul A Norman <paul.a.nor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Approaching it from the delphi/pascal orientation first...(not meaning > > pascal server side--and that is possible as well) ... > > > > You'd find much in Delphi for Php that is very familiar. > > > > It is built on top of an opensource framework " VCL for PHP", and > > you'd probably appreciate E's familiar delphi IDE approach. When E > > bought up the front end the guy who wrote it went across with it - so > > it has been well backed technically in its development. > > > > Plus you can stand Lazarus on top of the opensource part and use it > > for the GUI parts. > > http://donaldshimoda.blogspot.com/2008/09/php-toolkit-disponible.html > > > > http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Pascal_and_PHP > > "With the PHP Toolkit you can also convert your Delphi and Lazarus > > form design files (.dfm/.lfm) to VCL for PHP files, as well as > > configure Lazarus for use as a PHP IDE." > > > > Using quality frameworks front and back end generally provides for > > decent testing and error reporting. > > > > Also if you want to look at php frameworks like Delphi for php, as an > > approach, Prado (desgined heavily around Delphi - turboPascal > > concepts) > > http://www.pradosoft.com/ is highly spoken of. > > > > Also a derivative project http://www.yiiframework.com/ > > > > "The Fast, Secure and Professional PHP Framework > > > > "Yii is a high-performance PHP framework best for developing Web 2.0 > > applications. > > > > "Yii comes with rich features: MVC, DAO/ActiveRecord, I18N/L10N, > > caching, authentication and role-based access control, scaffolding, > > testing, etc. It can reduce your development time significantly." > > > > Further you can escape the confusion that has been mentioned here over > > html and css using a web framework / JavaScript library like jQuery > > (even now used and contributed to by Microsoft) > > > > "jQuery is a new kind of JavaScript Library. > > > > "jQuery is a fast and concise JavaScript Library that simplifies HTML > > document traversing, event handling, animating, and Ajax interactions > > for rapid web development. jQuery is designed to change the way that > > you write JavaScript. > > > > "The jQuery framework handles nearly ALL cross browser issues, and > > provides somewhat of a strong object orientated approach to the whole > > matter. You even just add visual components to the project in code." > > > > Using jQuery type frameworks as front ends and php framework(s) as a > > back end for business logic is very similar in thought processes to > > many necessary things you may have encountered in using Delphi over > > the years. > > > > Real-time testing on a local LAN apache is just that! > > > > You can still dive in to the html css js and of course the php as > > needed, but framework programming the web is the surest path to a > > consistent low hassle approach. > > > > Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time saving. > > > > People are doing whole cross-platform desktop client side programs, > > mobile applications, Apple Linux MS etc etc like this now - see > > Titanium for an all in approach based on web-kit. > > http://www.appcelerator.com/ > > > > Once you scratch below the surface of ECMA (JavaScript) you'll find a > > different(!) but reasonably robust object system with protoyping etc. > > > > These sites from amongst many are really useful for orientation on > JavaScript: > > > > http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/ > > and > > http://howtonode.org/object-graphs > > > > JavaScript has escaped the browser! There are even whole setups writen > > in JavaScript now -- see http://nodejs.org/ > > > > "Node's goal is to provide an easy way to build scalable network > > programs. In the "hello world" web server example above, many client > > connections can be handled concurrently. Node tells the operating > > system (through epoll, kqueue, /dev/poll, or select) that it should be > > notified when a new connection is made, and then it goes to sleep. If > > someone new connects, then it executes the callback. Each connection > > is only a small heap allocation." > > > > And newer releases of php offer self serving capabilities as well. > > > > So it is an interesting time to be involved and to be (re-)entering the > arena! > > > > If you just want simple drag and drop with a framework, Delphi for > > Php or Lazarus with phpo toolkit, will do most of that for you, plus > > you can extend things.. > > > > Here is an early blurb of Delphi for Php at the outset. > > http://www.delphi-php.net/2007/03/ > > > > Paul > > > > On 3 June 2011 16:35, Steve Peacocke <st...@peacocke.net> wrote: > > Friday question (or Can of Worms) > > > > Hey guys, I'm looking at getting into serious web development. I used to do > this a number of years ago with standard Delphi 6 at that time. > > > > I have Delphi 7 > > > > I've been looking seriously at Ruby on Rails but that would mean learning a > whole new language and process > > > > There has been a lot of talk of the validity of using IntraWeb with Delphi. > > > > Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others use? Should I bite > the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to D2011 or something else? > > > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 6180 (20110604) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 6180 (20110604) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards > > Rohit Gupta > B.E. 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If you have received this in error, please notify us > immediately by return email and then delete this email and any attachments. > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 6180 (20110604) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > _______________________________________________ > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
