Paul Yes, read a lovely phrase on the ROR site, "Rails is opinionated software. It makes the assumption that there is a “best” way to do things, and it’s designed to encourage that way – and in some cases to discourage alternative"
This I think is a huge problem in handling the Object-Relational interface, basically you are committed to dong it their way or no way which will limit you..just a matter of when Neven > On 5 June 2011 19:13, Neven MacEwan<ne...@mwk.co.nz> wrote: >> My 2 cents worth for someone looking at Web Dev now >> >> Options >> 1. Go with the mindless horde (M$, C# .NET) >> 2. Go with the alternative mindless horde (ROR) >> 3. Go for the Money (Java) >> 4. Go alternative (PHP) >> >> I never used Delphi for PHP but highly recommend Nusphere PHPed as a Delphi >> like IDE and with 5+ you can write delphi like OO code >> There are numerous 'frameworks' you can use but as functionality is moving >> back to the client AJAX and jQuery are probably your best bet whilst HTML5 >> takes hold > I'll make that 4c > > "> Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time > saving. " - quoting myself :) > > I'd re-emphasize that, unless there is a compelling reason to use a > framework (like its a perfect match for what you are doing) - or > someone feels they just have to have one to get started, jQuery and > do your own back ends in php (that can include using aspects of m/any > frameworks as they are useful). > > Like many of the available DOM/JavaScript libraries, jQuery really > handles Ajax calls and display of new data, very well. > > For the most part jQuery is kept up-to-date - if you link to the > latest version, and if you choose your plug-ins carefully and keep > them up-to-date with authors' releases, they will pretty silently step > you though the HTML 5 issues as they unfold - cross browser, often > with graceful fall backs when possible. > > Paul > >> Neven >> >> There are plenty of benchmarks out there showing that PHP isn’t exactly a >> race horse: >> >> >> >> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php >> >> http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html >> >> >> >> But that said, php is plenty fast enough to easily handle a couple of >> *thousand webpage requests per minute* on a decent web server. That’s >> usually fast enough for most websites … and if you are some big-outfit that >> has to scale well beyond that limit then you could just loadbalance between >> multiple servers and/or take facebooks hiphop project and cross compile your >> PHP to much faster C-code (https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php). >> >> >> >> I choose C# over PHP for other much more important reasons - speed isn’t the >> issue. >> >> >> >> Stefan >> >> >> >> >> >> From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On >> Behalf Of Rohit Gupta >> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:07 PM >> To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List >> Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development >> >> >> >> I dont find PHP slow at all. >> >> On 5/06/2011 2:20 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: >> >> Paul. A very informative reply thanks. Gary also suggested PHP but I have >> always discounted it as slow and cumbersome. However reading through some of >> the blurb suggests that it may gave come a long way in recent years. >> >> >> >> I'm very familiar with HTML and somewhat familiar with small JavaScript >> pieces (MS-CRM mods). So these languages don't really phase me but the >> thought of learning another language like Ruby was robbing me of sleep. I >> have about a dozen languages under my belt but anyone is really only fully >> conversant in up to 2. I remember when I was 6 years old I spoke 3 spoken >> languages fluently but can only manage a little French, some small German >> and still learning Chinese, but Gaelic has totally disappeared from my >> vocabulary. Its the same with programming, without regular use, other >> languages tend to leave the mind (we leak memory all over the place). >> >> >> >> However it does look like PHP might be an interesting prospect. I was >> seriously looking at C# as well but wanted something I could use sooner than >> the learning curve would require. >> >> >> >> Thanks again. I'll take a good strong look over the next few weeks. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> On 5/06/2011, at 12:32 PM, Paul A Norman<paul.a.nor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Steve, >> >> >> >> Approaching it from the delphi/pascal orientation first...(not meaning >> >> pascal server side--and that is possible as well) ... >> >> >> >> You'd find much in Delphi for Php that is very familiar. >> >> >> >> It is built on top of an opensource framework " VCL for PHP", and >> >> you'd probably appreciate E's familiar delphi IDE approach. When E >> >> bought up the front end the guy who wrote it went across with it - so >> >> it has been well backed technically in its development. >> >> >> >> Plus you can stand Lazarus on top of the opensource part and use it >> >> for the GUI parts. >> >> http://donaldshimoda.blogspot.com/2008/09/php-toolkit-disponible.html >> >> >> >> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Pascal_and_PHP >> >> "With the PHP Toolkit you can also convert your Delphi and Lazarus >> >> form design files (.dfm/.lfm) to VCL for PHP files, as well as >> >> configure Lazarus for use as a PHP IDE." >> >> >> >> Using quality frameworks front and back end generally provides for >> >> decent testing and error reporting. >> >> >> >> Also if you want to look at php frameworks like Delphi for php, as an >> >> approach, Prado (desgined heavily around Delphi - turboPascal >> >> concepts) >> >> http://www.pradosoft.com/ is highly spoken of. >> >> >> >> Also a derivative project http://www.yiiframework.com/ >> >> >> >> "The Fast, Secure and Professional PHP Framework >> >> >> >> "Yii is a high-performance PHP framework best for developing Web 2.0 >> >> applications. >> >> >> >> "Yii comes with rich features: MVC, DAO/ActiveRecord, I18N/L10N, >> >> caching, authentication and role-based access control, scaffolding, >> >> testing, etc. It can reduce your development time significantly." >> >> >> >> Further you can escape the confusion that has been mentioned here over >> >> html and css using a web framework / JavaScript library like jQuery >> >> (even now used and contributed to by Microsoft) >> >> >> >> "jQuery is a new kind of JavaScript Library. >> >> >> >> "jQuery is a fast and concise JavaScript Library that simplifies HTML >> >> document traversing, event handling, animating, and Ajax interactions >> >> for rapid web development. jQuery is designed to change the way that >> >> you write JavaScript. >> >> >> >> "The jQuery framework handles nearly ALL cross browser issues, and >> >> provides somewhat of a strong object orientated approach to the whole >> >> matter. You even just add visual components to the project in code." >> >> >> >> Using jQuery type frameworks as front ends and php framework(s) as a >> >> back end for business logic is very similar in thought processes to >> >> many necessary things you may have encountered in using Delphi over >> >> the years. >> >> >> >> Real-time testing on a local LAN apache is just that! >> >> >> >> You can still dive in to the html css js and of course the php as >> >> needed, but framework programming the web is the surest path to a >> >> consistent low hassle approach. >> >> >> >> Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time saving. >> >> >> >> People are doing whole cross-platform desktop client side programs, >> >> mobile applications, Apple Linux MS etc etc like this now - see >> >> Titanium for an all in approach based on web-kit. >> >> http://www.appcelerator.com/ >> >> >> >> Once you scratch below the surface of ECMA (JavaScript) you'll find a >> >> different(!) but reasonably robust object system with protoyping etc. >> >> >> >> These sites from amongst many are really useful for orientation on >> JavaScript: >> >> >> >> http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/ >> >> and >> >> http://howtonode.org/object-graphs >> >> >> >> JavaScript has escaped the browser! There are even whole setups writen >> >> in JavaScript now -- see http://nodejs.org/ >> >> >> >> "Node's goal is to provide an easy way to build scalable network >> >> programs. In the "hello world" web server example above, many client >> >> connections can be handled concurrently. Node tells the operating >> >> system (through epoll, kqueue, /dev/poll, or select) that it should be >> >> notified when a new connection is made, and then it goes to sleep. If >> >> someone new connects, then it executes the callback. Each connection >> >> is only a small heap allocation." >> >> >> >> And newer releases of php offer self serving capabilities as well. >> >> >> >> So it is an interesting time to be involved and to be (re-)entering the >> arena! >> >> >> >> If you just want simple drag and drop with a framework, Delphi for >> >> Php or Lazarus with phpo toolkit, will do most of that for you, plus >> >> you can extend things.. >> >> >> >> Here is an early blurb of Delphi for Php at the outset. >> >> http://www.delphi-php.net/2007/03/ >> >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> On 3 June 2011 16:35, Steve Peacocke<st...@peacocke.net> wrote: >> >> Friday question (or Can of Worms) >> >> >> >> Hey guys, I'm looking at getting into serious web development. I used to do >> this a number of years ago with standard Delphi 6 at that time. >> >> >> >> I have Delphi 7 >> >> >> >> I've been looking seriously at Ruby on Rails but that would mean learning a >> whole new language and process >> >> >> >> There has been a lot of talk of the validity of using IntraWeb with Delphi. >> >> >> >> Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others use? Should I bite >> the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to D2011 or something else? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list >> >> Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz >> >> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi >> >> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: >> unsubscribe >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list >> >> Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz >> >> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi >> >> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: >> unsubscribe >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list >> >> Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz >> >> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi >> >> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: >> unsubscribe >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 6180 (20110604) __________ >> >> >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 6180 (20110604) __________ >> >> >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards >> >> Rohit Gupta >> B.E. 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