On 5/3/07, Mimi Yin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Pieter, please see below.
On May 3, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Pieter Hartsook wrote:
> On 5/3/07, Mimi Yin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Pieter and Andre,
>>
>> Can I ask you some more specific questions about what you mean by
>> chronological order? (The Date column displays only one of many
>> possible dates associated with any given item.)
>>
>> Or perhaps a different way to think about it is: What were you trying
>> to do when you were reviewing your Triage Sections?
>> + Find a particular item?
>
> Yes
Can I ask what kind of item was it? How were you looking for the
item? Trying to find it in terms of event start-date?
An event. Finding it by start time. In the Later section I see events
in this order:
Tomorrow
Tomorrow
Jun 18, 2007
July 12, 2007
May 10, 2007
May 10, 2007
May 5, 2007
Tomorrow
July 15, 2007
Jul 4, 2007
May 20, 2007
Jun 18, 2007
May 13, 2007
July 12, 2007
Jun 17, 2007
Today 5:30 PM
May 28
May 31
May 7
May 11
May 14
May 8
May 8
May 10 May 9
Yesterday
May 26
etc.
Say I'm looking for one of those May 8 events, I don't remember
exactly when it was but I know it was probably in early May... I have
to scroll through all 66 items and look carefully at every one because
an early May event could literally be anywhere.
>> + Review what you had done last week?
>
> Yes, or last month, or a year ago in Sept.
Okay, this seems like it would be satisfied by the way the DONE
section is sorted today. Would you agree?
The Done section is no better. It mixes events in this order:
July 3, 2006
Dec 20, 2003
Jan 9, 2006
Nov 3, 2004
Jan 11, 2005
Nov 21, 2006
Feb 18, 2005
Mar 7, 2006
Apr 20, 2005
...
I have 1536 items in the Done section. If I'm looking for an event in
Oct. 2006 where would it be?
>
>> + Review what was coming up next week?
>
> Yes, or next month, or 6-months from now
I think that would work with the way that LATER items will be sorted
Post-Preview.
>> + Other scenarios?
>>
>> We have logged a bug for revisiting the sub-sort post-Preview. We
>> were unable to implement the entire spec for sub-sorting: http://
>> bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8939
>>
>> FYI: The 'ideal' design according to the spec sub-sorts the Triage
>> Status column in chronological order in the following way:
>> + Sort the NOW section in the order that items become NOW. This
>> includes:
>> - When an item was created
>> - When an item was received via Email
>> - When an item was 'tickled' into NOW due to an alarm firing or an
>> event date/time passing
>
> this is a good order, but I would also like to be able to see a list
> of all my events in order by event start time because I want a quick
> look at my scheduled meetings for this afternoon.
So for this afternoon's stuff, as Jeffrey pointed out, it's probably
better to use the Preview pane?
Unless the event in not in your dashboard collection, but even if it
is you have to click from day to day to see only 1-day's events at at
time.
If you had to choose between:
1) event start time; or
2) a smart combination of event start time or custom alarm date
(whichever comes first),
Which would you choose?
I would choose start time (but it WOULD be nice to have a
checkbox/radio button to include alarm dates or not.)
The current proposal for post-Preview is #2 because I thought it
would be more useful for people to see things in the order that they
are coming up...and if for some reason, you have a custom-date alarm
set on an event for 5 days before the start date of the event, then
that event item represents something you need to do, think about,
deal with at the alarm date.
Does that make sense?
Yes it does and I like that, but in many cases the alert is MUCH less
important and arbitrary than the event itself.
I think definitely for purposes of sorting so that you can find
stuff, we need to allow users to sort on a particular attribute:
event start date versus alarm date versus date created etc.
But my supposition was that when sorting in order to 'get the lay of
the land for the next week', you really want to see all of the items
that will pile into your NOW section over the next week, regardless
of whether it will pile in because an alarm fires or because an event
start date/time passes. Does that make sense?
Yes, I do like that for the NOW section which is much smaller than the
archival Done section or the Later section.
>> - When an item was explicitly marked as NOW
>>
>> + Sort the LATER section in the order of when items 'will become'
>> NOW. (This is the functionality that has been punted to Future.)
>> - Stuff that is imminent is at the top.
>> - Stuff further into the future is at the bottom.
>
> Same as for the NOW section, A sorted list of LATER items in the order
> of their START time is very useful to me. Interspersing items way in
> the future that have near-term ticklers is also useful, but in a
> different context. I may set myself a reminder to RSPP for a wedding
> in Sept. that will go off on this next Monday, but that noise gets in
> the way of seeing all the events that actually start on Monday that
> must get done. The RSVP can slip a day or week or two, but I need to
> know that my Property Tax payment is due on Monday, and that I have 8
> meetings scheduled.
What if you have a custom-date tickler that is a hard deadline as
well? I think what you're describing is more a way to differentiate
between important stuff and not important stuff and I'm not sure that
there's a 1:1 mapping between important versus not-important and
alarm versus event start date?
>
Some alerts are as important as the event, some are not.
>>
>> + Sort the DONE section in the order of when items became DONE. (So
>> that you have easy access to that stuff you most recently marked as
>> DONE.)
>> - Stuff that you just marked as DONE is at the top.
>> - Stuff that was DONE ages ago is at the bottom.
>
> Same as above, I'm more likely to be able to find an item by looking
> for the date it was scheduled rather than when I did it (which may
> have been well before or most likely well after) the scheduled event.
> I know when Property Tax payments are due, but may not remember when I
> actually sent them off. I also may want to review what I did last
> November, so sorting in the order of stamping DONE is also useful.
> Different requirements.
Interesting. Perhaps we should order the DONE section like the
proposed post-Preview LATER section.
1. Items are ordered from 'most recent' to 'most in the past'
2. Items are sub-sorted by event start date/time or a custom-date
alarm *if* the alarm was set for *after* the event end date/time.
3. Items with neither event nor alarm date/time information are
sorted by when they were triaged to DONE.
Should category 3 live above or below categories 1 and 2? If you just
triaged a task with no alarm to DONE, will it be annoying to have to
scroll past all of your old events and items with alarms to get to it?
> Certainly not for Preview, but maybe sometime
> the user can select which field the sort (and any sub-sort) may
> operate on.
Yes, absolutely!
Mimi
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