Hi Sven, It's exactly why we asked this in this mailing list. We want feedback. We want the dialog. This is not an decision to be taken lightly.
Yes, OXID wants to get rid of this support as its time consuming in maintaining. Maybe we should view this in context of years. The 4.0 was released in October 2008. It's now 2010. We are not talking about removing it next week :) How long do you think is an appropriate time for support? 2011 ? And when will it be acceptable for the client that it's no longer supported ? Did you investigated how much work it is to convert these templates into the new standard? I guess it's costing OXID way more effort in keeping this feature than for this customer in porting the templates. To be honest, I don't think it's fair either to expect indefinite support so that I as customer never need to change anything, waiting until there is a business need like a need the look & feel of the shop. The question is: what's a reasonable timeframe for supporting it, reasonable for the whole community. Remember that every time spend in supporting old stuff, is reducing the time to make new cool features. What do you rather have ? I agree, you can't leave clients out in the rain. But if most are already ported, how long do we keep supporting this? indirectly on costs of other clients ... They get a tiny bit of less features .. What is the good timing for stopping support for an old feature? Not an easy answer... BTW Your example scenario EE vs CE is skewed. You still need to update every CE for bugfixes / security fixes reasons. And if that newer version doesn't support the old templates you have the same problem again. So what's the point in this scenario? It doesn't solve your problem. Or do you want to say that this customer is willing to forgo on bug / security fixes just to save template issues ? Now that's a scary thought. Maybe he does have a budget for that ? The idea of an old templating system as a module is very interesting. If we make one, are you willing to maintain it ? This is actually an serious question ;) If anymore of you out there are using old templates. Pls tell us about it here. We want to know.. Regards Erik -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Kliebenstein Sven Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 13:16 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted:Keep supportforoldertemplating system? Hi all, It seems we're the only ones using old templates in OXID 4 - at least inside this mailing list... Some facts: One of our customers runs an OXID EE 4.2.0 Shop with five subshops in it, the shop was migrated from earlier version 2.7.0.3 to generation 4 of the shop. The templates for two shops, which are the main shops in mall, where completely refactored and updated to new template set. So there are three shops in mall that use the old template sets. The problem is, that these shops are smaller shops making only little conversion, so there's no budget for migrating the templates. Conclusion: If we keep the old templates, this would mean that if the support for old templates is removed, we cannot update the software anymore. So the two primary shops cannot take advantage of new features or even bugfixes / security fixes. Therefore for me it seem's to be better for our customers to install multiple OXID CE's than one big OXID EE! The licence savings could then be easily invested in implementation partner, hardware, infrastructure, and so on... In all marketing slides it says "The OXID Enterprise Edition is the software which fits all your needs and will always support the growth of your business" - in our case it should say "By using the OXID Enterprise Edition you agree to adjust your business to the needs of OXID, meaning you have to reinvest to change the software everytime OXID makes changes in eShop - and best of all, by changing the development process to extreme programming OXID is able to release patches every month and updates every quarter..." Please don't missunderstand this, but I'm just looking through the glasses of our customers... Ok, let's switch to a bit more constructive thoughts: How about releasing an "Backward Compatibility Support for old Templates" - Module where the code is not part of the main shop distribution but available as a Module, maybe only available for Enterprise customers? Just my two euros ;-) Regards, Sven -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 09:24 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep supportforoldertemplating system? Ahoi! >> does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ? Sure. Vote is clear and I see no reason anymore to wait much longer. I cannot yet promise that we remove it already for 4.4 as we've already many wishes for that release. As our goal is to have an update each quarter (see also http://www.oxidforge.org/wiki/Development_Process) it might happen that we remove it only in 4.5. But definitely not later :) Regards, Ralf -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Erik Kort Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 17:06 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep supportforoldertemplating system? Hi Ralf, Answer of mailing list is clear remove it .. Also when was pretty clear no later than v4.4. does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ? Yes, I know I could ask you tomorrow in office .. I think this is the kind of discussions/info/decision making which may be good to hold here .. In front of everybody .. [Mark: OXID Dev-General Mailing List History Making Moment #1] :-D Regards, Erik -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 11:39 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support foroldertemplating system? Hi all, thanks for your clear feedback! :) Ralf -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Mathias Fiedler Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 08:21 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support for oldertemplating system? Get Rid of it! Version 4.4. seems to be a good time :) Regards Mathias Am 19.01.2010 um 18:45 schrieb Erik Kort: > Hi All, > > we currently still have support in the v4.x shops for templates from > older shop systems (EE2.7 & PE 3.0). Keeping this causes use extra > maintenance effort. We have code in shop solely to provide this > support. Personally I would like to get rid of them. It will make the > code leaner and cleaner. I don't have any reliable information about > how often this is still used out there. > > So I want YOUR feedback! :-) > > Do you know of any 4.x shops still running old templates ? .. > Especially up-to-date shops ( v4.2) > > What do you think? Can we remove it ? or do we need to keep this > support in here longer? > > From which 4.x version on should they be removed ? 4.3 ? 4.4. ? 4.5 > 5.0 ? > > As you see many questions. So do give us feedback (here) !! > > Regards, > > Erik > > -- > > Erik Kort > Chief Software Architect > > [email protected] > Fon +49 761 36889-197 > Fax +49 761 36889-28 > www.oxid-esales.com > > OXID eSales AG > Bertoldstraße 48 > 79098 Freiburg > Deutschland > > USt-IdNr.: DE231450866 > Vorstand: Roland Fesenmayr (Vorsitzender), Eric Jankowfsky, Andrea > Seeger Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Harald Fuchs > Sitz: Freiburg > Amtsgericht Freiburg i. Br. > HRB 701648 > _______________________________________________ > dev-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general _______________________________________________ dev-general mailing list [email protected] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.oxid.general
