Hi, > @Andreas: Everyone writing one module is a good idea. I like crowd sourcing :)
Absolutely. Feel free to use http://projects.oxidforge.org/ to have an own development environment including task lists and SVN. Regards Marco -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Mathias Fiedler Gesendet: Montag, 25. Januar 2010 11:02 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general]Feedbackwanted:Keep supportforoldertemplating system?[T-0E90ZOGEP6-43] Hi I just had the idea that removing the backward compatibility is not just a topic of tamplats, but also of modules. If you for example remove most of the "__get" method in oxarticle or the "_setDeprecatedValues" in oxbasket you could also break modules. It could be possible that these public properties have benn used in 4.X modules as well, so removing them will force a module update as well. Don't get me wrong. I want this stuff to be removed, I just want to point out that there is more then just 2 year old templates to keep in mind. @Andreas: Everyone writing one module is a good idea. I like crowd sourcing :) Regards Mathias Am 25.01.2010 um 09:31 schrieb anzido GmbH: > Hi all, > > as I said: I'd like to have that stuff removed soon. In many places > it's eating up performance unnecessarily. And a 15 months period of > having those deprecated values is enough. (They had been marked as > "deprecated" from the very beginning ...) > > @Sven: Did you really check the amount of time you would need to > update those old templates? Actually I cannot really understand why > you took this way .. - cause in the very beginning of OXID 4 we tried > to take the old templates twice ... - seeing that it did not work to > just adopt the old ones but much work had to be done to make for > example the order process work. So we decided never to take the old > tmeplates cause the effort to switch to the new style was not much > bigger as to fix the old templates. > > The idea to prepare some modules for keeping the old stuff is a good > one, I think. > @Erik: As you want to remove the old stuff you should know what > exactly would have to be removed. So could you perhaps give us a list > of files and functions which would be changed due to that? This would > make it possible to a. check if all that stuff could be managed by > some modules b. devide the task between some more developers and > perhaps everybody of this list could contribute ONE module - and we > would be done very quickly. :-) > > > Regards! > Andreas > > > > > -----Original data----- > Date: 24.01.2010 23:21:56 > From: Erik Kort <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedbackwanted:Keep > supportforoldertemplating system? > Task: T-0E90ZOGEP6-43 > >> Hi Sven, >> >> It's exactly why we asked this in this mailing list. We want >> feedback. We want the dialog. This is not an decision to be taken >> lightly. >> >> Yes, OXID wants to get rid of this support as its time consuming in >> maintaining. Maybe we should view this in context of years. The 4.0 >> was released in October 2008. It's now 2010. We are not talking about >> removing it next week :) How long do you think is an appropriate time >> for support? 2011 ? And when will it be acceptable for the client >> that it's no longer supported ? Did you investigated how much work it >> is to convert these templates into the new standard? I guess it's >> costing OXID way more effort in keeping this feature than for this >> customer in porting the templates. To be honest, I don't think it's >> fair either to expect indefinite support so that I as customer never >> need to change anything, waiting until there is a business need like >> a need the look & feel of the shop. >> The question is: what's a reasonable timeframe for supporting it, >> reasonable for the whole community. Remember that every time spend in >> supporting old stuff, is reducing the time to make new cool features. >> What do you rather have ? I agree, you can't leave clients out in the >> rain. But if most are already ported, how long do we keep supporting >> this? indirectly on costs of other clients ... They get a tiny bit of >> less features .. What is the good timing for stopping support for an >> old feature? Not an easy answer... >> >> BTW Your example scenario EE vs CE is skewed. You still need to >> update every CE for bugfixes / security fixes reasons. And if that >> newer version doesn't support the old templates you have the same >> problem again. So what's the point in this scenario? It doesn't solve >> your problem. Or do you want to say that this customer is willing to >> forgo on bug / security fixes just to save template issues ? Now >> that's a scary thought. Maybe he does have a budget for that ? >> >> The idea of an old templating system as a module is very interesting. >> If we make one, are you willing to maintain it ? This is actually an >> serious question ;) >> >> If anymore of you out there are using old templates. Pls tell us >> about it here. We want to know.. >> >> Regards Erik >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] Im Auftrag von Kliebenstein Sven >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 13:16 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted:Keep >> supportforoldertemplating system? >> >> Hi all, >> >> It seems we're the only ones using old templates in OXID 4 - at least >> inside this mailing list... >> >> Some facts: One of our customers runs an OXID EE 4.2.0 Shop with five >> subshops in it, the shop was migrated from earlier version >> 2.7.0.3 to generation 4 of the shop. The templates for two shops, >> which are the main shops in mall, where completely refactored and >> updated to new template set. So there are three shops in mall that >> use the old template sets. The problem is, that these shops are >> smaller shops making only little conversion, so there's no budget for >> migrating the templates. >> >> Conclusion: >> If we keep the old templates, this would mean that if the support for >> old templates is removed, we cannot update the software anymore. So >> the two primary shops cannot take advantage of new features or even >> bugfixes / security fixes. Therefore for me it seem's to be better >> for our customers to install multiple OXID CE's than one big OXID EE! >> The licence savings could then be easily invested in implementation >> partner, hardware, infrastructure, and so on... In all marketing >> slides it says "The OXID Enterprise Edition is the software which >> fits all your needs and will always support the growth of your >> business" - in our case it should say "By using the OXID Enterprise >> Edition you agree to adjust your business to the needs of OXID, >> meaning you have to reinvest to change the software everytime OXID >> makes changes in eShop - and best of all, by changing the development >> process to extreme programming OXID is able to release patches every >> month and updates every quarter..." >> >> Please don't missunderstand this, but I'm just looking through the >> glasses of our customers... >> >> Ok, let's switch to a bit more constructive thoughts: >> How about releasing an "Backward Compatibility Support for old >> Templates" - Module where the code is not part of the main shop >> distribution but available as a Module, maybe only available for >> Enterprise customers? >> >> >> Just my two euros ;-) >> >> Regards, >> Sven >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 09:24 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep >> supportforoldertemplating system? >> >> Ahoi! >> >>>> does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ? >> >> Sure. Vote is clear and I see no reason anymore to wait much >> longer. I cannot yet promise that we remove it already for 4.4 as >> we've already many wishes for that release. As our goal is to have >> an update each quarter (see also >> http://www.oxidforge.org/wiki/Development_Process) >> it might happen that we remove it only in 4.5. >> >> But definitely not later :) >> >> Regards, >> >> Ralf >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] Im Auftrag von Erik Kort >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 17:06 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep >> supportforoldertemplating system? >> >> Hi Ralf, >> >> Answer of mailing list is clear remove it .. Also when was pretty >> clear no later than v4.4. >> >> does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ? >> >> Yes, I know I could ask you tomorrow in office .. I think this is >> the kind of discussions/info/decision making which may be good to >> hold here .. In front of everybody .. [Mark: OXID Dev-General >> Mailing List History Making Moment #1] :-D >> >> Regards, >> >> Erik >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 11:39 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support >> foroldertemplating system? >> >> Hi all, >> >> thanks for your clear feedback! :) >> >> Ralf >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] Im Auftrag von Mathias Fiedler >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 08:21 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support for >> oldertemplating system? >> >> Get Rid of it! >> >> Version 4.4. seems to be a good time :) >> >> Regards >> >> Mathias >> >> Am 19.01.2010 um 18:45 schrieb Erik Kort: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> we currently still have support in the v4.x shops for templates from >>> older shop systems (EE2.7 & PE 3.0). Keeping this causes use extra >>> maintenance effort. We have code in shop solely to provide this >>> support. Personally I would like to get rid of them. It will make >>> the >>> code leaner and cleaner. I don't have any reliable information about >>> how often this is still used out there. >>> >>> So I want YOUR feedback! :-) >>> >>> Do you know of any 4.x shops still running old templates ? .. >>> Especially up-to-date shops ( v4.2) >>> >>> What do you think? Can we remove it ? or do we need to keep this >>> support in here longer? >>> >>> From which 4.x version on should they be removed ? 4.3 ? 4.4. ? 4.5 >>> 5.0 ? >>> >>> As you see many questions. So do give us feedback (here) !! >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Erik >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Erik Kort >>> Chief Software Architect >>> >>> [email protected] >>> Fon +49 761 36889-197 >>> Fax +49 761 36889-28 >>> www.oxid-esales.com >>> >>> OXID eSales AG >>> Bertoldstraße 48 >>> 79098 Freiburg >>> Deutschland >>> >>> USt-IdNr.: DE231450866 >>> Vorstand: Roland Fesenmayr (Vorsitzender), Eric Jankowfsky, Andrea >>> Seeger Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Harald Fuchs >>> Sitz: Freiburg >>> Amtsgericht Freiburg i. 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