Hi Sven,
It's exactly why we asked this in this mailing list. We want
feedback. We want the dialog. This is not an decision to be taken
lightly.
Yes, OXID wants to get rid of this support as its time consuming in
maintaining. Maybe we should view this in context of years. The 4.0
was released in October 2008. It's now 2010. We are not talking
about removing it next week :) How long do you think is an
appropriate time for support? 2011 ? And when will it be acceptable
for the client that it's no longer supported ? Did you investigated
how much work it is to convert these templates into the new
standard? I guess it's costing OXID way more effort in keeping this
feature than for this customer in porting the templates. To be
honest, I don't think it's fair either to expect indefinite support
so that I as customer never need to change anything, waiting until
there is a business need like a need the look & feel of the shop.
The question is: what's a reasonable timeframe for supporting it,
reasonable for the whole community. Remember that every time spend
in supporting old stuff, is reducing the time to make new cool
features. What do you rather have ? I agree, you can't leave
clients out in the rain. But if most are already ported, how long
do we keep supporting this? indirectly on costs of other
clients ... They get a tiny bit of less features .. What is the
good timing for stopping support for an old feature? Not an easy
answer...
BTW Your example scenario EE vs CE is skewed. You still need to
update every CE for bugfixes / security fixes reasons. And if that
newer version doesn't support the old templates you have the same
problem again. So what's the point in this scenario? It doesn't
solve your problem. Or do you want to say that this customer is
willing to forgo on bug / security fixes just to save template
issues ? Now that's a scary thought. Maybe he does have a budget
for that ?
The idea of an old templating system as a module is very
interesting. If we make one, are you willing to maintain it ? This
is actually an serious question ;)
If anymore of you out there are using old templates. Pls tell us
about it here. We want to know..
Regards Erik
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] Im Auftrag von Kliebenstein Sven
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 13:16
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted:Keep
supportforoldertemplating system?
Hi all,
It seems we're the only ones using old templates in OXID 4 - at
least inside this mailing list...
Some facts: One of our customers runs an OXID EE 4.2.0 Shop with
five subshops in it, the shop was migrated from earlier version
2.7.0.3 to generation 4 of the shop. The templates for two shops,
which are the main shops in mall, where completely refactored and
updated to new template set. So there are three shops in mall that
use the old template sets. The problem is, that these shops are
smaller shops making only little conversion, so there's no budget
for migrating the templates.
Conclusion:
If we keep the old templates, this would mean that if the support
for old templates is removed, we cannot update the software
anymore. So the two primary shops cannot take advantage of new
features or even bugfixes / security fixes. Therefore for me it
seem's to be better for our customers to install multiple OXID CE's
than one big OXID EE! The licence savings could then be easily
invested in implementation partner, hardware, infrastructure, and
so on... In all marketing slides it says "The OXID Enterprise
Edition is the software which fits all your needs and will always
support the growth of your business" - in our case it should say
"By using the OXID Enterprise Edition you agree to adjust your
business to the needs of OXID, meaning you have to reinvest to
change the software everytime OXID makes changes in eShop - and
best of all, by changing the development process to extreme
programming OXID is able to release patches every month and updates
every quarter..."
Please don't missunderstand this, but I'm just looking through the
glasses of our customers...
Ok, let's switch to a bit more constructive thoughts:
How about releasing an "Backward Compatibility Support for old
Templates" - Module where the code is not part of the main shop
distribution but available as a Module, maybe only available for
Enterprise customers?
Just my two euros ;-)
Regards,
Sven
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 2010 09:24
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep
supportforoldertemplating system?
Ahoi!
does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ?
Sure. Vote is clear and I see no reason anymore to wait much
longer. I cannot yet promise that we remove it already for 4.4 as
we've already many wishes for that release. As our goal is to have
an update each quarter (see also http://www.oxidforge.org/wiki/Development_Process)
it might happen that we remove it only in 4.5.
But definitely not later :)
Regards,
Ralf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] Im Auftrag von Erik Kort
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 17:06
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep
supportforoldertemplating system?
Hi Ralf,
Answer of mailing list is clear remove it .. Also when was pretty
clear no later than v4.4.
does this mean it will be removed from v4.4 ?
Yes, I know I could ask you tomorrow in office .. I think this is
the kind of discussions/info/decision making which may be good to
hold here .. In front of everybody .. [Mark: OXID Dev-General
Mailing List History Making Moment #1] :-D
Regards,
Erik
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 11:39
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support
foroldertemplating system?
Hi all,
thanks for your clear feedback! :)
Ralf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] Im Auftrag von Mathias Fiedler
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2010 08:21
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Feedback wanted: Keep support for
oldertemplating system?
Get Rid of it!
Version 4.4. seems to be a good time :)
Regards
Mathias
Am 19.01.2010 um 18:45 schrieb Erik Kort:
Hi All,
we currently still have support in the v4.x shops for templates from
older shop systems (EE2.7 & PE 3.0). Keeping this causes use extra
maintenance effort. We have code in shop solely to provide this
support. Personally I would like to get rid of them. It will make
the
code leaner and cleaner. I don't have any reliable information about
how often this is still used out there.
So I want YOUR feedback! :-)
Do you know of any 4.x shops still running old templates ? ..
Especially up-to-date shops ( v4.2)
What do you think? Can we remove it ? or do we need to keep this
support in here longer?
From which 4.x version on should they be removed ? 4.3 ? 4.4. ? 4.5
5.0 ?
As you see many questions. So do give us feedback (here) !!
Regards,
Erik
--
Erik Kort
Chief Software Architect
[email protected]
Fon +49 761 36889-197
Fax +49 761 36889-28
www.oxid-esales.com
OXID eSales AG
Bertoldstraße 48
79098 Freiburg
Deutschland
USt-IdNr.: DE231450866
Vorstand: Roland Fesenmayr (Vorsitzender), Eric Jankowfsky, Andrea
Seeger Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Harald Fuchs
Sitz: Freiburg
Amtsgericht Freiburg i. Br.
HRB 701648
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