Hi Achim,
yep. Personally I fully agree. But let's for a moment ignore this and focus on
a way to go on a semi-technical level.
Right now the issue is about 'lost' data because of deleting users when they
come back and buy a second time without registration. And I really like to find
a way to go here without confusing connected (sub-)systems.
Avenger suggested the way which **Commerce goes: It seems to work well, so why
don't do it like them?
Discussion schedule now I propose:
A) Find basic procedure (see below)
B) Discuss how to implement it
Let's start small with A) -- with the big picture in mind -- and then find a
solution which goes much into details!
Thus for now I really like to ignore even B) as far as possible as this really
huge discussion about all topics of the case will probably never end -- you
can see how long it already takes ;)
So let's discuss about possible solutions, instead of problems :). My
suggestion:
1. During order processing, a temporary account is
Created in a 'good' place (what exactly 'good'
means is still to be defined).
2. All necessary information for fulfilling the order
collected and stored somewhere in a 'good' place
(what exactly 'good' means is still to be defined).
3. Previously created temporary account is deleted,
order information is kept.
Any better ideas?
Regards,
Ralf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Achim Leinberger
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 17:20
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general]Deletingunregistereduser
accounts[T-3CKCXFBU7D-56]
Hi,
I'd like to know where people see the legal issues with keeping the
fulfillment data in the database, be it under oxuser or oxorder.
IMO this has nothing at all to do with the advertisement "buy without
opening an account". Opening an account is nothing more than being able to
login later and have all personal data available after logging in. Not
wishing to open this account does not legally bind the seller to not store
the details, in fact, this being a mailorder business case, data have to be
stored.
So I think this discussion is beside the point, but please explain otherwise
if I'm wrong.
Best,
Achim
(oxal)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]im Auftrag von Ralf
Trapp
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 16:55
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Deletingunregistereduser
accounts[T-3CKCXFBU7D-56]
Ahoi,
I summarize. You basically suggest a procedure like this:
1. During order processing, a temporary account is
Created in a 'good' place (what exactly 'good'
means is still to be defined).
2. All necessary information for fulfilling the order
collected and stored somewhere in a 'good' place
(what exactly 'good' means is still to be defined).
3. Previously created temporary account is deleted,
order information is kept.
I'm not yet talking about database and issues, just want to agree about
basic procedure and later on about how to realize it.
Regards,
Ralf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von
[email protected]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 12:40
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Deleting unregistereduser
accounts[T-3CKCXFBU7D-56]
I think there is(!) a legal problem..
When the order process starts, the "guest" account is advertised like "buy
without a customer account in our shop".
But matter-of-factly, the shop is allocating a customer account, and it is
keeping it forever...
So you are basically cheating your customers...
Imo xtCommerce handles this situation correctly:
During order processing, a temporary account is created, which is deleted
after successful order processing.
All necessary information for fulfilling the order is kept in the order
record(s) in the DB, and this particular order is never changed by the shop
any more, if not the shop-owner changes it on purpose (address-info,
articles aso.).
If the same client should order again later on, new order record(s) will be
created.
Doing it that way, you both adhere to your promise (no customer account in
the shop), and you can fulfill the order.
Dipl.-Ing.(TH) Winfried Kaiser (aka Avenger)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Ralf Trapp
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 12:21
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Deleting unregistered user
accounts[T-3CKCXFBU7D-56]
Hi all,
from legal point of view there's no prob at all as of course shop owners
need this data to fulfill the order.
As changes here affect many (esp. external) connections to and with OXID
eShop, I'd like to trigger a discussion about possible _solutions_ which can
and should be implemented.
Any ideas?
Regards,
Ralf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von anzido GmbH
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. November 2009 09:13
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [oxid-dev-general] Deleting unregistered user
accounts[T-3CKCXFBU7D-56]
Hi Marco,
> notes. Hope you recognized the wind of change of the past
> months/weeks. :-)
I did ... - and hope it'll keep blowing! ;-)
> >From a legal point of view - and this should be the only and lonely
> criterion - I would propose ...
>From a legal point of view there cannot be any "proposal". This has to be
properly investigated and at the end of the day there has to be a reliable
statemet of how things have to be done.
> - oxremarks would appear in oxorder as well
I don't think that the order remarks have been meant here ... - but I might
be wrong.
> - as there would not be any oxuser entry, the unregistered user cannot
> have a history or related stuff
For several purposes many shop owners do want to have such history of
unregistered users. But as I said above: Make sure that we soon get a
reliable legal statement for that.
> In my opinion, this is not just a dirty workaround but a legal
> requirement. If we consequently implemented it like proposed, of course,
> a couple of problems would come up, especially for existing interfaces
> that used oxuser instead of oxorder for gathering data before.
Exactly. And another thing is that customers get a new customer number each
time they order (if not registered). Actually I doubt that this is an
oblogatory legal request.
As I said: first pleyse check out the definite legal conditions. And then
let's see what's up for the code.
Regards
Andreas
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