On February 19, 2014 at 18:26:08, Janet Swisher ([email protected]) wrote:
> I can see this being done simply as a category of posts on Hacks. That way, > it's individual developers, who may or may not be staff, endorsing a > collection of tools for a particular purpose. If their views change, they can > make an update or a new post. Readers could view the whole collection of > recommendations, with the implicit understanding (since it's a blog) that > older posts are staler than new ones. On 20 Feb 2014, at 00:43, tofumatt <[email protected]> wrote: > But how is that different from the status quo? A serious of hacks posts > without a common voice would not be what convinced me to use a particular set > of tools. That’s what Hacks, or A List Apart, or whatever is for—and they’re > great resources. But when I, as a developer, go to “How do I make web apps > for Mozilla?” page I want not only guidance, but brief and instructive > guidance. I don’t want to read twelve blog posts in twelve voices from twelve > points in time on six frameworks or pieces. I want a README like this: > https://github.com/gcollazo/brunch-with-ember-reloaded Yeah, my gut feeling is that Hacks wouldn’t be optimal for this. It could help to lead attention to it on a regular basis, but for me I’d rather see it as a section on MDN. And I completely agree that it should be run by Mozillians and the greater web community alike, for credibility and, to be honest, for staying relevant. I believe this could be a good part of the Developer Program, helping developers to make choices suiting their specific needs. I e-mailed Fred Wenzel directly when he sent the first e-mail in this thread, but I might as well share what I said here: > This is great! The immediate thing that sprung into my mind - and an idea > I’ve toyed with before - is to have a section of the Developer Program to > help developers make those choices. I.e. a section for “Finding the best tool > for the job”, with key questions and decisions, taking the developer step by > step closer to a good list of options matching their needs. I think we need something akin to http://www.javascriptoo.com/ (although that’s a bit simplified from the greater need, but still more in the right direction). - Robert On 20 Feb 2014, at 00:43, tofumatt <[email protected]> wrote: > But how is that different from the status quo? A serious of hacks posts > without a common voice would not be what convinced me to use a particular set > of tools. That’s what Hacks, or A List Apart, or whatever is for—and they’re > great resources. But when I, as a developer, go to “How do I make web apps > for Mozilla?” page I want not only guidance, but brief and instructive > guidance. I don’t want to read twelve blog posts in twelve voices from twelve > points in time on six frameworks or pieces. I want a README like this: > https://github.com/gcollazo/brunch-with-ember-reloaded > > I recently used this skeleton for a personal app, and found it AMAZING. It’s > a no-nonsense, get-started approach that had me at a functioning app in no > time. Plus: although it made choices FOR ME, it allowed me to change things I > felt opinionated on. > > Part of our messaging has always been “it’s the web and you can do what you > want”. Developers who don’t like our choices can try to convince us of better > ones and will either change our minds (great!) or won’t (that’s fine), but > they are the ones who already have opinions. There are lots of devs who don’t > care whether it’s stylus or SCSS or SASS or Less or CSS—I’m one of them. We > should have solutions that cover a LOT of ground at once and are > no-assembly-required, but I’m cool if we build in ways advanced people can > make select choices. > > I don’t want readers taking any of our recommendations as “stale”. > - tofumatt > > > On February 19, 2014 at 18:26:08, Janet Swisher ([email protected]) wrote: > > I can see this being done simply as a category of posts on Hacks. That way, > it's individual developers, who may or may not be staff, endorsing a > collection of tools for a particular purpose. If their views change, they can > make an update or a new post. Readers could view the whole collection of > recommendations, with the implicit understanding (since it's a blog) that > older posts are staler than new ones. > > On 2/19/14 3:51 PM, Stormy Peters wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Bill Maggs <[email protected]> wrote: > Adding to Kumar's voice here, we can be more opinionated, but can't just say > it's MoCo that is doing the recommendations. I think Mozilla has a good track > record of the community being clearly identified as the source, and we can do > that here, too. Especially since in the framework-crazy world of today, we > are sure to piss some developers off with any choice, however well thought > through. > > I think we can make recommendations in a non-exclusive way. We can say "Hey, > you need an offline solution, here's one we tried that works well." If people > have suggestions or recommendations to make, we have writers that can help > frame it appropriately. > > Stormy > > > > And: > > If we can just come up with a innovative solution for list scrolling that > combines components with platform changes that will be easy for the other > browsers to adopt, then we will get a ton of good will. I have been talking > about this one for some time. Some progress now? Maybe we should document on > MDN all the approaches taken by potch, Arron, and others, the good and the > bad? It's a worthy effort. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kumar McMillan" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: "apps" <[email protected]>, [email protected], > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:03:18 AM > Subject: Re: Strong recommendations to help developers make better apps > > > On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:52 PM, Fred Wenzel <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello everyone! >> >> For developers, building apps on the Web platform can pose a >> fragmentation problem: For every development concern, there are often a >> dozen or more possible options to consider, without clear pros or cons. >> Web developers can feel intimidated not simply by their choices, but by >> how _similar_ their choices are. >> >> While this openness and community is a virtue, it leads to "choice >> paralysis" and the wrong impression that the Web is a harder platform to >> develop for than more restrictive alternatives. >> >> However, by making strong, informed recommendations to developers, we >> can help turn the variety of development tools available on the Web from >> a daunting proposition into an empowering one. >> >> A great example of this is the significant attention[1] tofumatt's >> localForage[2] project has received. It provides a cross-platform, >> asynchronous storage library that "just works". With its straightforward >> API, it _removes_ an entire monotonous development choice for >> developers. The community honored this drastic simplification with >> almost 2000(!) "stars" on github in just a few days. >> >> Furthermore, we have a responsibility to our developers to ensure that >> certain frameworks, libraries, etc., have been tested and work well with >> our own and (eventually) other target platforms. >> >> Our developer-facing groups (Apps Engineering, Developer Relations and >> Developer Tools in particular) are collaborating to expand this effort >> systematically across the various parts of the development experience. >> >> >> Some projects that are already in flight include: >> >> - web-components-based (featuring Brick) app templates that work out of >> the box >> - additional such components for hard, yet common problems such as >> scrolling of large lists > > Sounds like a fantastic idea! > >> - Mozilla-endorsed framework and tool chain for apps > > Instead of Mozilla-endorsed might we consider community-endorsed? i.e. > endorsed by a community of experts. If we want to make Mozilla the central > authority we just need to plan for what to do when our ratings go stale. For > example, should we revisit each endorsement periodically? The state of tech > changes so fast; this makes me think crowd sourcing it might be more > effective. > >> - using the Firefox App Manager to start a new project from a template >> and allow developing on it right then and there, no other tools needed >> - submitting an app straight to the Marketplace from the App Manager >> - an updated "MDN Apps Zone" experience focusing on developer concerns >> and our materials and recommendations for each case >> >> >> If this whetted your appetite, great! 2014 is an exciting year to be an >> apps developer! All this and more is coming--step by step--to a >> developer experience near you. >> >> If you have any question or comments, speak up, or step by #apps on IRC! >> >> Thanks, >> Fred Wenzel >> >> >> [1] https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/02/localforage-offline-storage-improved/ >> [2] https://github.com/mozilla/localForage > > > > -- > Janet Swisher > Mozilla Developer Network > Developer Engagement Community Organizer > _______________________________________________ > engagement-developers mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/engagement-developers _______________________________________________ dev-webapps mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webapps
