> Why not be open about it, advocate for it, work for it and build consensus > and acceptance instead of putting everybody in front of a 'take it or leave > it' choice.
Can you be more specific? first I'm not sure where I have not been open about anything I'm doing... I have a JIRA for every commit I make, and I have been more vocal about everything I do actually... It seems that you are referring to things that happened long ago before I even joined the ASF. if that's the case I have no control over what happened in the past, and I would appreciate if I was judged by my own mistakes on that case (at least I would be able to amend my own mistakes). On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]> wrote: > Look Hiram, there already is consensus around changing the name to a code > name. In my opinion, still not enough. > > The plan to merge HornetQ into ActiveMQ didn't bother me either, I voted for > it in the beginning. What bothers me a lot, is what I perceive as a sneaky > way to go about it. Why not be open about it, advocate for it, work for it > and build consensus and acceptance instead of putting everybody in front of > a 'take it or leave it' choice. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. That's > really not like the ASF I know. That's why I made a conscious decision to be > vocal about it and, in my mind, do my best to protect this community. This > may cost me some personal relations, with people like you who are really > extremely intelligent and still do respect (hopefully not if you can > distinguish between the person and the ideas). And you Hiram, in particular, > were very civil in expressing your different views, which I, personally, > highly appreciate. > > Maybe I am wrong, maybe not, who knows... > Hadrian > > > > > On 04/20/2015 08:30 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote: >> >> Perhaps this just means your failing to build a consensus around your >> view point? >> >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Except that the discussion was started weeks ago and questions are >>> constantly ignored. >>> >>> Hadrian >>> >>> >>> On 04/20/2015 07:55 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Uhm, what were we doing for the past 2 weeks? On two lists, multiple >>>>> threads? >>>>> >>>>> I assume you are aware of my recommendation to have hornetq grow >>>>> independently in the incubator. That proposal was rejected, but no >>>>> reason >>>>> given besides that the RH engineers would have to do the work twice. My >>>>> request was to include that in the report (or whatever other reason >>>>> might >>>>> exist). The way it looks is that Fuse/RH/(the Damarillo group), anyway >>>>> you >>>>> want to describe that faction is dead set on replacing the existing >>>>> ActiveMQ >>>>> with HornetQ (or whatever code name) in version 6 or 10. By keeping >>>>> HornetQ >>>>> under the ActiveMQ PMC influence its future will be heavily influenced >>>>> by >>>>> the already biased PMC and at the same time hide the lack of diversity >>>>> in >>>>> HornetQ. In the incubator, HornetQ will have the opportunity and >>>>> freedom >>>>> to >>>>> grow in any direction and build a diverse community. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We've had lots folks from different companies agree with the direction >>>> that code contribution is going in. The fact that pin it on >>>> 'Fuse/RH/(the Damarillo group)' is very disingenuous and I think a >>>> poisonous position to take. I guess we just need to agree to disagree >>>> on this point. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Since there is all this concern about the viral nature of the plan, why >>>>> not >>>>> allow HornetQ to take its course, build more diversity in the ActiveMQ >>>>> community (actually both) and influence it based on technical merits >>>>> instead >>>>> of abundance of votes? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please start a discussion thread with your proposal and lets see if >>>> consensus can be built around it. This is how it's normally done. >>>> You can't just complain that you don't agree with how things are going >>>> and then cry that some evil conspiracy is underway. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Does that clarify my request? >>>>> Hadrian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 04/20/2015 05:51 PM, Bruce Snyder wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed, we need to get this report published/submitted, so time is off >>>>>> the >>>>>> essence here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hadrian, you have raised some points that you would like to have >>>>>> included >>>>>> in the report, but nobody can read your mind. Please add your points >>>>>> to >>>>>> the >>>>>> report so that others can see them and discuss them ASAP. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruce >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Hiram Chirino >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> So we are running into a time crunch here. I'm hoping all the PMC >>>>>>> members will pitch in and apply any edits to the report they deem >>>>>>> necessary. Many thanks to those who have helped out. Seems like >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> folks are still now happy with it, so that's why have held off in >>>>>>> sending it so that they get a chance to add their input. But your >>>>>>> right, I do have to send this in before the 22nd so really today is >>>>>>> the last day I can hold off so that I can send it on the 21st so that >>>>>>> the board has at least 24 hours to review before their meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One more thing. It's the responsibility of the PMC chair to provide >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> timely >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> report to the board. It's entirely his choice how he wants to go >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what he decides to include and what to leave out. The report should >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> published in a timely manner though, so that comments (usually from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> board) could be addressed before the meeting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Hadrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 05:23 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ok so, then it sounds like your ok with the report the way it is >>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>> now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have nothing to write. There were some claims made that were not >>>>>>>>>> substantiate. My request was for the party that made the claims to >>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>> an explanation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I cannot explain somebody else's point of view. I can explain my >>>>>>>>>> views >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> anybody requires it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Hadrian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 02:39 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hadrian, please write up what you want to include in the board >>>>>>>>>>> report >>>>>>>>>>> that way the rest of the PMC can review. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> First, the report is late. Second, I don't think it addresses >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>>>>>>>> Third, I made a request to please include in the report an >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> explanation >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> why hornetq moving to the incubator is a non-starter for Fuse >>>>>>>>>>>> crowd. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> very frustrating that requests get ignored. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hadrian >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 02:16 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are they any other updates folks want to make to this report? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> apply your updates soon. The board meets on the 22nd and I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> submit the report on the 21st at the latest. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Hiram Chirino >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys. The board requested a report this month and had some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific questions around the hornetq code donation. I've put >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> first cut a report on the Wiki at: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=55155578 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully we can finish off the code donation naming vote soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> report that too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hiram Chirino >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Engineering | Red Hat, Inc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] | fusesource.com | redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: hiramchirino | twitter: @hiramchirino >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Hiram Chirino >>>>>>> Engineering | Red Hat, Inc. >>>>>>> [email protected] | fusesource.com | redhat.com >>>>>>> skype: hiramchirino | twitter: @hiramchirino >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > -- Clebert Suconic http://community.jboss.org/people/[email protected] http://clebertsuconic.blogspot.com
