To answer your questions Anton, Slack is good for quick communication and for user-queries but not great for Dev communication.
One of the very recent examples was of recent AIP discussions about Reschedule Operators (or Async Operators). I missed the "group creation" on Slack for that SIG (Special Interest Group) as Slack already has 100s if not more messages daily and hence also missed the informal meeting which I (and other users like me) would have loved to be a part of. It is not easy to keep up with the messages over on Slack. We currently have more than ~4600 users on Slack and it is mostly used as a faster-alternative of StackOverflow. As the original creator of our Slack Workspace with Sid, the original idea was to use it as a medium for users to gets their doubts cleared from committers and other fellow users. We also have a "how-to-pr" and "development" channels for users who need some assistance or sometimes what the PR tests to be restarted. But it is definitely not a drop-in replacement for the dev-list where there are talks about architectural design, Roadmap discussion going on. You can argue that we could use a Slack channel to do that, however, once an email is sent to the dev list it is public and for everyone to see, Slack is a messaging platform, hence users can delete the messages for whatever reason. I can add more documentation in Contributing.rst to explain which medium should be used. Regards, Kaxil On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 10:08 PM Anton Zayniev <[email protected]> wrote: > That was me, got mixed my mail accounts. > Regarding problem 4: probably we should explain to newcomers not only how > to use dev lists, but also why we use it. Dev list was just a weird legacy > solution until I've heard about Apache requirements and SE indexing . > > Anton > > > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2020, 00:43 A Z <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 1. I don't mind asynchronous communication. I love it too because it > > provides more meaningful discussions. You don't have to hurry to answer > and > > can give you some time to organize your thoughts. Although sometimes > you'd > > like to make it quick (e.g. hotfixing that requires >1 ppl). Slack/Gitter > > provides you an opportunity for both quick/slow communication. Email is > > very bad for quick replies. That limitation is the thing I'd like to get > > rid of. > > > > 2. I've tried Pony Mail. Currently, I'm using it. It is way better than > > usual Gmail interface (I use it for 10+ years with short pause when I > > switch to Inbox), but there are still huge disadvantages: > > a) I can't quote particular sentence to address it > > b) There is no way of structuring your text (like bulleting, > underscoring, > > indentation, etc). Yes, I know I can use it in the Gmail web client, but > It > > is way harder to navigate there. > > c) No threads. Every discussion tends to split into different branches, > so > > it is nice to be able to join one of the threads ignoring the whole > > discussion (or vice-versa). > > d) Reply window just holds half of my screen. I have to close it to > reread > > some points in the discussion. > > e) A lot of niche things that I get used to (like polls, images, etc). > > They're not that crucial but make communication easier. > > f) I still have a cluttered inbox, hence all the discussions arrive > there. > > Yes, I can create smart filters, but it still needs some effort. > > > > 3. Yes, mobile device is a problem. Mailing lists on mobile are still > just > > Gmail client which is horrible for that kind of discussion. > > > > 4. And now my biggest concern: for the majority of users joining to mail > > list sounds like an invite to MySpace. It is easier to skip the community > > then make an effort into understanding how devlists do work. I think the > > main problem is not the struggle of existing users but the number of > > developers who skipped conversation being afraid of the unfamiliar > > messaging tool. > > > > On 2019/12/31 23:22:43, Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I had some discussion today and I'd love to get some more insight > (@Anton > > > Zayniev and others). I think about spending some of my time next year > on > > > Apache-general projects so that might be one I might put some effort > > into. > > > So I would love to learn more. > > > Anton - I would love to run an experiment with you. Would you like to > try > > > to use the https://lists.apache.org/[email protected] > to > > > respond to that email - quoting relevant parts etc. ? > > > > > > - What I really love about email interface is the built-in > > asynchronous > > > communication (thus slowness). I never expect response immediately, > > nor > > > provide one. I think this is deeply embedded in the whole Apache > Way. > > > People in Apache projects are all over the world, have different > > > schedules/time zones and responding after some time is OK and > > expected. > > > This is why we gave 72 hrs of voting time for example. Is this > > > something that bothers people who do not like mail interface > (Anton?) > > is > > > your expectation about immediacy of communication? > > > - The UI/interface - have you (Anton and others) used > > > https://lists.apache.org/[email protected] ? like > > > "log-in" and use it as mail sending interface? Not that different > from > > > Gmail/Other web interfaces. I am using Gmail for like 12 years now > as > > my > > > only email interface (no clients whatsoever) and never looked back > > after > > > switching. Maybe you simply don't realise how comfortable and useful > > it is > > > to use web interface for writing emails or messages? > > > - Or maybe the problem is mobile devices? > > > - I think once you learn how to start new threads, comments with > > quoting > > > etc, mailing list is pretty useful. I don't think slack is much > > better in > > > it to be honest. What are the most annoying things that bother you > > Anton > > > with those? > > > > > > J. > > > > > > > >
