Hey Noirin, On Dec 30, 2011, at 12:21 AM, Nóirín Plunkett wrote:
> Chris, > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) > <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> Hey Guys, >> >> I was talking with Greg, and I think I'm OK with org.apacheextras as >> the namespace. > > Thanks for your patience :-) I wasn't trying to discount your > proposals, and I appreciate that you'd created a patch--I was just > trying to understand the reasons you disliked the org.apacheextras.* > proposal. I hear ya. No worries, yesterday I had tons of energy and free cycles (at least in my mind! ;) ) and was trying to see if I could align the stars correctly so that I could get back to writing code. Of course, typical me I found a large issue in a relatively small one, but hopefully it generated some good discussion! :) > > If your conversation with Greg is easy to summarize, it might be worth > documenting why this proposal ended up being ok for you--but if you > just want to get back to writing code, that's fine too :-) Yeah the upshot of it was: 1. I ran my idea that org.apache should be useable by Apache Extras projects. 2. Greg said: Extras != Apache. Apache can only use org.apache. 3. I said really, but I'm a nice guy? 4. He said, yes you are, you're the most awesomest guy I ever met (OK I added that last part), but it doesn't matter how nice you are, you shouldn't be able to use org.apache. 5. I said meh, why am I expending so much energy on this when org.apacheextras is decent and I can live with it? 6. I said thanks for your opinion Greg, I respect it, I'll move on. I also respected that Mark S., and that you (Noirin) thought org.apacheextras would be fine, but was just trying to I guess push the larger issue about org.apache.* I even told Greg Stein this too which is that namespaces aren't exactly the best tool to enforce anything since I can do whatever I want locally (e.g., create all sorts of directories and take over any namespace simply by putting Jar files I create there) on someone's computer and if I don't make a lot of noise about it or publicize it. So my feeling is why are we wasting Apache resources policing our own people? In the end though, that's a larger debate that I don't really have the time or the energy to change right now, so I'll drop it. > >> It sounds like Noirin thought that was cool and so did Mark S. >> Are folks here on ComDev cool with that namespace for our Extras >> projects? If so, I'll update my COMDEV-65 patch with docs stating that >> and document it and move forward. > > Tiny nit on the patch: we have project management committees, not > project committees :-) (Hey, at least I read it, right? :-)) Haha, cool cool, I'll update it after the conversation settles. > >> I'm also of the mindset that the PMC should be the ones saying >> if they are OK with my oodt-pushpull-plugins Extras name and >> to me it should be fine if the PMC is OK with that. I can update >> the FAQ/guidelines to state that. > > My very vague recollection from when Apache Extras was booting up was > that we didn't want "official PMC-sanctioned projects" to have special > status there. I'd give this one a day or two to collect more input > before updating anything. Yeah I guess that's what I was asking for in the end. An official PMC sanctioned project. I guess it wasn't clear to me (and still isn't) what relationship Apache Extras has with our org. To me because it had Apache Extras in it (aka had "Apache" in it), then it was part of our org (at least to me) and I thought org.apache should be OK. To folks like Greg, Extras is _not_ our org and thus has no right to use org.apache. Which, if Greg's opinion is true (and I am +1 for it), then I go back to seriously questioning why we are confusing foundation officers like me and wasting our volunteer time trying to interpret what Apache Extras is because I clearly had the wrong idea. I question what the utility of Apache Extras is at all then. But, I was really just trying to save modifying 4 Java files and changing their namespace, and then updating my Maven poms, which in about 10 mins I was able to do last night. So, in the end I thought org.apacheextras was OK from that perspective. And you honed back in on it. I could sit here and endlessly debate and pontificate, or I could get back to writing code and enjoying the holidays. I chose the latter. Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
