Joe, Well I want to try again and see if we can get what we want, while at the same time without being punched in the face :-)
Marcel, I know you got appointed in Apache Foundation recently can you talk to Apache/Infra guys and try with the fury of a million cordova developers to see if what is the possibility to use github with the understanding that there is backup, syncing, and archiving in place like I layout in my email? On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 6:55 AM Carlos Santana <csantan...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > One small thing would be to go FULL usage of Github. > > We already have folks go there to submit PR anyway. > > > > 1. Use Github Issues > > Have folks use Github issues as the easiest and preferred way > > Backup/Archive data on Apache using github web hooks to create > > corresponding jira items, and sync comments. we already doing this with > > mentions of jira CB-xxxx. > > > > > I don't know if this is allowed. The powers that be at Apache hate GitHub > with the fury of a thousand suns. We already have enough problems just > getting our code to be reflected on GitHub. I would love to dump JIRA and > go back to GitHub issues, and I feel that the move to the Apache > infrastructure seriously hurt the project and made it less accessible to > our users and anyone who isn't an Apache neckbeard. > > > > > > Also what about if cordova decides to move out from Apache Foundation, to > > another open source Foundation? That should not affect the community they > > should still continue to interface in Github. > > > > > Sadly, since we're not allowed to use GitHub this way, us leaving the ASF > would be welcomed by our users because we'd be allowed to use GitHub for > everything again like when Nitobi existed. One thing that I think we don't > communicate well enough is how much we hate the ASF policies and how these > stupid policies hurt our users. If I thought that the ASF cared about such > a thing, I would suggest that we communicate this more clearly. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:08 AM, Stef <stephane.bachel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > As a survey it's always biased. > > > > > > I've used Cordova since a long time before the 1.x. The problem is > > clearly > > > not about Cordova, but most developers don't understand this. They > think > > > Cordova is like "build an awesome application in 21 days". > > > Clearly most of these guys don't know Javascript, the mobile web nor > > > anything relative to the mobile. > > > > > > There are really a lots of shitty mobile applications and most of them > > are > > > native :) > > > > > > -- > > > Stéphane Bachelier, > > > Tél. 06 42 24 48 09 > > > B8A5 2007 0004 CDE4 5210 2317 B58A 335B B5A4 BFC2 > > > > > > 2015-04-09 9:35 GMT+02:00 José-Luc Voltaire < > > > jose-luc.volta...@netdevices.fr > > > >: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I am a developper and I use Cordova. > > > > > > > > I just wanted to say that even thought we don't know all the details > > > about > > > > how it works under the hood, we have, at least, an idea of the work > > done > > > > and appreciate it. > > > > > > > > I try to understand how the tools I use work and I don't think I am > the > > > > only one. > > > > > > > > I'm agree with Tyler and I think mobile web apps can be as good as > > native > > > > ones, it requires a lot of work, and that's what I try to do for the > > > apps I > > > > work on! > > > > > > > > Again, Thank you for your work, we appreciate! > > > > > > > > 2015-04-08 22:12 GMT+02:00 Tyler Freeman <ty...@drumpants.com>: > > > > > > > > > I think what colors people's perception the most is the graphics > and > > > > > interaction performance of JS vs Native. Here's a few possible > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > * They are basing their bias off Phonegap apps they saw 3 years > ago. > > > Even > > > > > though it's improved so much since then, those first apps still > hang > > in > > > > > people's minds. > > > > > > > > > > * Developers are not trying hard enough for that smooth, buttery > > > > > animations. It is possible to get 60fps on modern WebKit views, but > > > it's > > > > > hard and takes a lot of work. > > > > > > > > > > * For instance, I came across an article once that recommended > using > > > CSS > > > > > transforms instead of properties like "left". That changed my whole > > way > > > > of > > > > > thinking, and my app looks and reacts so much better because of > it. I > > > > think > > > > > it would be good for the Cordova docs to lay out tips like that for > > > > making > > > > > top-notch apps. > > > > > > > > > > * Non-native feel and interactions. Some apps just port their > > iOS-style > > > > > design straight to Android without considering that Android users > > > expect > > > > a > > > > > completely different paradigm. Not sure there's much to do about > > this. > > > > > > > > > > Tyler > > > > > > > > > > On April 8, 2015 9:42:00 AM PDT, Michael Brooks < > > > > mich...@michaelbrooks.ca> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >This is a really interesting survey. My take is that the score is > > low > > > > > >because over 50% of the participants are Windows users and the > > default > > > > > >Cordova experience on Windows is extremely unconventional - Git > > Bash, > > > > > >Node.js Command Prompt, terminal command driven development, and > no > > > > > >full > > > > > >blown IDE. The Microsoft team is dramatically improving this and > as > > > > > >Visual > > > > > >Studio integration becomes more well known, I hope those survey > > > results > > > > > >improve. > > > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Toplak Daniel < > d.top...@cadenas.de> > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Absolutely right :-) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Cordova is too easy in some situations and most of the > developers > > > > > >using > > > > > >> cordova (not the cordova developers itself) are knowing nothing > > > about > > > > > >the > > > > > >> plugin system under the hood, or anything about the > JS->Native->JS > > > > > >bridge. > > > > > >> They even don't know anything about the asynchronos > communitcation > > > > > >with > > > > > >> plugins. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In most situations this is absolutely ok, but if anything > special > > is > > > > > >> needed or something goes wrong, then they have a problem. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The other thing is that there are some JS frameworks/libs which > > are > > > > > >not > > > > > >> the best for mobile devices. No I don't name anyone of that :-) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> My point of view is, that they don't see the real power of the > > > > > >cordova > > > > > >> framework and create sloppy/buggy UI's. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Daniel Toplak > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > > > >> Von: Joe Bowser [mailto:bows...@gmail.com] > > > > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. April 2015 17:56 > > > > > >> An: dev@cordova.apache.org > > > > > >> Betreff: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers > happy? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Cordova is the most hated form of Mobile Development, because > > > > > >everyone can > > > > > >> create a Cordova app, and the quality of most Cordova > applications > > > is > > > > > >> absolutely terrible. If you're inheriting a Cordova application > > > from > > > > > >> another company, you're probably going to end up re-writing it > and > > > if > > > > > >> you're an iOS or Android shop, re-implementing it natively > because > > > > > >that's > > > > > >> what you're more comfortable with. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> And I'm perfectly OK with that. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Wordpress and LAMP stacks aren't going away any time soon, and > > both > > > > > >those > > > > > >> technologies share the same property that anyone can create a > > shitty > > > > > >> website. We've been called the Drupal of development for a > > reason, > > > > > >and at > > > > > >> the time we were called that, I took it as an insult because I > > think > > > > > >Drupal > > > > > >> is shitty (I once inherited a bad Drupal project). I don't > think > > we > > > > > >should > > > > > >> care what developers say in a survey, since most developers are > > > > > >terrible > > > > > >> anyway. We should just make sure that what we're releasing > isn't > > > > > >terrible. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:03 AM Treggiari, Leo > > > > > ><leo.treggi...@intel.com> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The data below is from a StackOverflow Developer Survey ( > > > > > >> > http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015). > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Most Dreaded technologies: > > > > > >> > Salesforce 73.2% > > > > > >> > Visual Basic 72.0% > > > > > >> > Wordpress 68.2% > > > > > >> > Matlab 65.6% > > > > > >> > Sharepoint 62.8% > > > > > >> > LAMP 62.2% > > > > > >> > Perl 59.2% > > > > > >> > Cordova 58.8% ************** > > > > > >> > Coffeescript 54.7% > > > > > >> > Other 57.3% > > > > > >> > % of devs who are developing with the language or tech but > have > > > not > > > > > >> > expressed interest in continuing to do so. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Any ideas on what the problem is? Here are some possible > > answers. > > > > > >> > I'm not suggesting that any of these are true, but rather > > looking > > > > > >for > > > > > >> > feedback from those who have heard developers express > > frustration > > > > > >with > > > > > >> Cordova: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > * There is no problem - unclear question led to the > > answer > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > * The problem is really about creating native apps in > > > > > >JavaScript + > > > > > >> > HTML5 > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > * Cordova CLI has a quality problem (learnability | > > > > > >usability | > > > > > >> > reliability) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > o Too hard to set up development environment > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > o The command CLI is too complicated > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > o Not enough learning material (documentation, articles, > > books) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > o Too many bugs > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > o Changes too frequently > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Leo > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Tyler Freeman > > > > > CTO, DrumPants, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Cordialement, > > > > > > > > Voltaire José-luc > > > > Directeur Technique > > > > Netdevices > > > > e-mail : jose-luc.volta...@netdevices.fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Carlos Santana > > <csantan...@gmail.com> > > > -- Carlos Santana <csantan...@gmail.com>
