On Friday 03 February 2006 03:49, Alex Fisher wrote: > On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:25, Scott M Stolz wrote: > > > > On 1/26/06, Alex Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > It will also result in quite a few current readers of this > > > > > list no longer being able to follow discussions. There are > > > > > quite a few who detest the forum format (I'm one - I fond > > > > > them clunky and very difficult to use, and invariability very > > > > > slow - Email has disadvantages, but IMO fora have even more.
Heh I've gone through this discussion in the past and been shot down by the email zealots. > > > > The problem is that an e-mail list also prevents a lot of people > > from participating in discussions. I really dislike e-mail > > discussion lists and only subscribe to them if there is no other > > choice. I prefer forums much better because my e-mail box does not > > get cluttered up with thousands of discussion messages. > > Well, I participate in about 20 email lists, apart from the OO.o > lists (where I have around 15 currnetly active lists), and the most > messages I've had in one day (including spam) is 150. How anyone gets > "thousands" of emails in one day from mailing lists is beyond me Now I participate on a lot of OOo lists and a few others, 23 in all and my record is about 520 in a day. (but I unsubscribed from users and spend time on OOoforum.org instead) so that cut it back a little. I still get 200 odd a day. > > > With a forum, I go in when > > I want, and only when I want, view the discussions I want, and only > > receive e-mail notifications of topics I want. I don't have to > > subscribe to the entire website; I can subscribe to specific > > threads only if I want to. > > > > In a nutshell, forums give the user MUCH more control over how they > > participate in discussions than an e-mail list which sends every > > single topic to your e-mail. <snip> > My email client is set to check for new mail every 5 minutes, so all > new posts are there, for me to read or not, as and when I choose. It > means a more immediate response when needed, something which I've yet > to see with forums, (unless you remain logged in constantly), and in > fact gives me everything that you list as the supposed advantages of > a forum, without the need to log in to read the responses to my > questions. Mine too but you still have to connected for the five minute checking to work, so that comment is neither here nor there. When I'm online I'm logged into whatever forum I wish to be working on. No different to the five minute check > > My suspicion is that the majority of those who complain about mailing > lists simply haven't a decent email client, or they haven't > configured it adequately. A good client will also interface properly > with various anti-spam tools (such as Spamassassin), which once > configured and trained adequately will trap over 90% of spam (which > is of course filtered into its own folder). I use Kmail with all the so called advantages, threading, pretty coloured text, a bloody annoying spell checker that I can't figure out how to turn off. I have filters configured and takes a bloody age to do it. The biggest single issue is I'm tied to one computer to do the mails. If I happen to check mail via web access I can't reference with other mail without going to the archives, which is a mission in itself. When you are working on anything upward of 15 different computers a day mail lists are seriously limiting Now I'm not a great fan of PHPBB, I think it's a pig of a thing, but MXBoard is light weight and superfast > > I think you should be able to understand just why I find it so hard > to comprehend the complaints about mailing lists in general. > Everything that has been put forward as an objection to them I've > found to be unfounded, at least based on my personal experiences. Why > is it that so many of us have none of the problems that others claim > to be having? What is the difference? Perhaps it's just they've had the same experience as me, you get shouted down and nothing changes > > > Even in digest form, its annoying. > > Forget digests. They are the most useless thing yet developed for > mailing lists (particularly the way the OO.o lists do them). > Individual emails are considerably easier to manage, again based on > my personal experience.... > > > With > > an e-mail discussion list, you have to sort through ALL the > > discussions to find what you want, > > No, you only have to glance at the list of subject lines and > senders... > > > with a forum, you read only what > > you want to read. > > With properly configured email clients and filters, you only need > read the mails you want, same for Fora >with no need to wait for a web page to load, A small price to pay > and no need to scroll through the entire thread or do a search search > to view one specific person's posts. With a good forum thats unnecessary as well . > > > Plus you can search a forum saving you time. > > Scanning a list of subject lines and senders is faster than any > web-based search. And a decent email client usually has a search bar > above the list of messages, and by entering a phrase in there it > usually (Mine does) sorts on the fly. I've never had to enter the > full search term (for example, to find all posts from you I would > start typing your name or email address in the box . By the time I > had "sco" in there, only those threads which you had posted to would > be shown. I could further filter by message status (read, new or > unread). The problem that strikes is when you have need to search back a long way.. especially if the mail didn't seem important at the time and it got deleted. The Forum database is much easier to search than list archives > > Much faster than logging in, waiting for the page to load, entering > the search term. waiting for the page to load, realizing that the > search needs refining, waiting for the page to load.... And for those > using dial-up it's even slower Hmm I'm on dial up and I still prefer forums > > > For some, e-mail discussion lists are better, but for many, a > > modern forum is much much better. +1 if the mail to a list is less that ten a week and they can wait till I'm logged on to my home computer then yay for the mail list. With high traffic, give me fora any day > > Don't get me wrong, Forums have their place. I just can't see how, > for our purposes, they offer any significant advantages. In fact, as > I pointed out above, there are some significant disadvantages... I've > used forums for a number of purposes, mainly for finding information > (that's how, for example, I researched the broadband suppliers here > and decided which one to sign up with. Worked well, since i didn't > need any immediate responses, and a lot of the info was already > there). I'll continue to use forums when they are the most useful > option.... > And therein lies as good a reason as any. Many people come to OOo mailing lists for assistance and then complain that the Mailing list has swamped their inbox and then panic because they can't figure out how to unsubscribe. The whole mailist environment is set up for long term users. Forums have the advantage for casual users of being easy to come and go on without having your inbox invaded and without having to go through the Subscribe - Unsubscribe performance. Just my 3.5 cents worth Yo -- Graham Lauder OpenOffice.org Marcon New Zealand [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Gold Assessor Trainer www.theingots.org Member Open Document fellowship http://www.opendocumentfellowship.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
