Hi everyone, I agree with Xintong in the sense that I don't see what has changed since the original decision on this topic. In my opinion, there is a high cost in moving to ASF now, namely I fear we will loose many of the >1200 members and the momentum that I see in the workspace. To me there would need to be strong reason for reverting this decision now.
Cheers, Kosntantin Am Di., 8. Nov. 2022 um 10:35 Uhr schrieb Xintong Song < tonysong...@gmail.com>: > Hi Max, > > Thanks for bringing this up. I'm open to a re-evaluation of the Slack > usages. > > In the initial discussion for creating the Slack workspace [1], leveraging > the ASF Slack was indeed brought up as an alternative by many folks. I > think we have chosen a dedicated Flink Slack over the ASF Slack mainly for > two reasons. > - ASF Slack is limited to people with an @apache.org email address > - With a dedicated Flink Slack, we have the full authority to manage and > customize it. E.g., archiving / removing improper channels, reporting the > build and benchmark reports to channels, subscribing and re-post Flink blog > posts. > As far as I can see, these concerns for the ASF slack have not changed > since the previous decision. > > On the other hand, could you explain a bit more about what are the problems > / drawbacks that you see in the current Flink Slack? > - I assume having to join too many workspaces counts one > > Best, > > Xintong > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n43r4qmwprhdmzrj494dbbwr9w7bbdcv > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:51 PM Martijn Visser <martijnvis...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > If you click on the link from Beam via an incognito window/logged out of > > Slack, you will be prompted to provide the workspace URL of the ASF. If > you > > do that, you're prompted for a login screen or you can create an account. > > Creating an account prompts you to have an @apache.org email address. > See > > https://imgur.com/a/jXvr5Ai > > > > So for me that's a -1 for switching to the ASF workspace. > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:52 PM Austin Bennett <aus...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > +1 to leveraging the larger ASF Community/Resources Slack Channel > rather > > > than an independant one ... ASSUMING ANYONE CAN JOIN [ so that needs to > > be > > > verified ]. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 9:05 AM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > >> There is a way to work around the invite issue. For example, the Beam > > >> project has a direct invite link which sends you to the #beam channel: > > >> https://app.slack.com/client/T4S1WH2J3/C9H0YNP3P I'm not 100% sure > > >> whether > > >> this link actually works. I've take it from: > > >> https://beam.apache.org/community/join-beam/ > > >> > > >> -Max > > >> > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 1:48 PM Martijn Visser < > martijnvis...@apache.org > > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Hi Max, > > >> > > > >> > > I wonder how that has played out since the creation of the Slack > > >> > workspace? I haven't been following the Slack communication. > > >> > > > >> > I think it has primarily played a role next to the existing User > > mailing > > >> > list: lots of user questions. There were maybe a handful of > > >> conversations > > >> > where the result of the conversation was a request to open a Jira, > > >> create a > > >> > FLIP or open up a discussion on the Dev list. > > >> > > > >> > > There is an invite link that they can use. Maybe not the most > > >> > straight-forward process but I think it doesn't stop users from > > joining. > > >> > > > >> > That's only possible to use for those with an @apache.org e-mail > > >> address, > > >> > see https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. Anyone else would need to > be > > >> > invited by a committer, but I wouldn't be in favour of needing to > > spend > > >> > committers time in adding/inviting members on an ASF Slack instance. > > >> > > > >> > Best regards, > > >> > > > >> > Martijn > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 12:33 PM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Hey Martijn, hi Chesnay, > > >> >> > > >> >> >The big problem of using the ASF Slack instance is that users can > > join > > >> >> any Slack channel, including ones outside of Flink. > > >> >> > > >> >> That is one of the main motivations for proposing to move to the > ASF > > >> >> Slack. We can create an unlimited number of "flink-XY" channels in > > the > > >> ASF > > >> >> Slack, although one or two are probably all we need. It seems > logical > > >> that > > >> >> we share the Slack workspace, just like the other infrastructure > like > > >> JIRA, > > >> >> mail, Jenkins, web server, etc. I guess I'm just in too many Slack > > >> >> workspaces already. > > >> >> > > >> >> From an ASF standpoint, I think it would be desirable to channel > > people > > >> >> into the main workspace to promote the software foundation. Also, > the > > >> main > > >> >> point of communication should still be the mailing lists. I wonder > > how > > >> that > > >> >> has played out since the creation of the Slack workspace? I haven't > > >> been > > >> >> following the Slack communication. > > >> >> > > >> >> >Not to mention that non-committers need to be invited by an ASF > > Slack > > >> >> user to be able to join. > > >> >> > > >> >> There is an invite link that they can use. Maybe not the most > > >> >> straight-forward process but I think it doesn't stop users from > > >> joining. > > >> >> > > >> >> Linen is pretty nice, especially for making Slack searchable via > > search > > >> >> engines. > > >> >> > > >> >> -Max > > >> >> > > >> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 2:44 PM Chesnay Schepler < > ches...@apache.org> > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >>> According to Robert linen is supposed to show the entire history. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> On 03/11/2022 14:27, Martijn Visser wrote: > > >> >>> > Addition: I'm not sure if Linen actually provides the messages > > that > > >> are > > >> >>> > older, but I can't test that since we've only recently > integrated > > >> it. > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 2:23 PM Martijn Visser < > > >> >>> martijnvis...@apache.org> > > >> >>> > wrote: > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> >> Hi Max, > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> From my experience, most ASF projects actually don't use the > > >> official > > >> >>> >> Slack, but their own instance. That has happened with Airflow, > > >> >>> Iceberg, > > >> >>> >> Hudi etc. > > >> >>> >> The big problem of using the ASF Slack instance is that users > can > > >> >>> join any > > >> >>> >> Slack channel, including ones outside of Flink. Not to mention > > that > > >> >>> >> non-committers need to be invited by an ASF Slack user to be > able > > >> to > > >> >>> join. > > >> >>> >> The problem with the history is mitigated by using the service > > from > > >> >>> Linen > > >> >>> >> https://www.linen.dev/s/apache-flink > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> I prefer the current Slack instance of the ASF one. > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> Thanks, > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> Martijn > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 1:14 PM Maximilian Michels < > > m...@apache.org> > > >> >>> wrote: > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >>> Hi, > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> A while ago the Flink community decided to create a Slack > > >> workspace > > >> >>> [1]. I > > >> >>> >>> wonder, is there a particular reason why we created our own > > Slack > > >> >>> >>> workspace > > >> >>> >>> and do not use the official ASF Slack [2]? It looks like most > > ASF > > >> >>> projects > > >> >>> >>> use the official Slack. Using the official Slack makes > > >> collaboration > > >> >>> with > > >> >>> >>> other projects easier but it also comes with additional > > benefits, > > >> >>> e.g. > > >> >>> >>> free > > >> >>> >>> unlimited history (our current workspace suffers from limited > > >> >>> history). > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> Since the vote thread[1] mentioned a re-evaluation of the > > decision > > >> >>> until > > >> >>> >>> the end of 2022, I'd like to propose to move our channels to > the > > >> >>> official > > >> >>> >>> ASF Slack workspace. In my eyes, the dedicated workspace is a > > bit > > >> of > > >> >>> an > > >> >>> >>> overkill and we're better off joining the rest of the ASF > > >> community. > > >> >>> Let > > >> >>> >>> me > > >> >>> >>> know what you think. > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> -Max > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> [1] > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j2kdh3zx6rrb49mz5n2vb06g2knogxdj > > >> >>> >>> [2] https://infra.apache.org/slack.html > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> > > > > > > -- https://twitter.com/snntrable https://github.com/knaufk
