It was discussed at the latest Apachecon conference by Infra during one of the lightning talks. If I recall correctly, it was primarily turned to invite-only due to spam. But definitely good to validate that.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 11:09 AM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> wrote: > The registration problem should be solvable. Maybe it is due to the Slack > pricing model that the ASF Slack is invite-only. I'll ping the community > mailing list. > > Have these issues at any point been discussed with the ASF? I feel like > this is one of the examples where a community spins off to do its own thing > instead of working together with the foundation. > > -Max > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 10:46 AM Konstantin Knauf <kna...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I agree with Xintong in the sense that I don't see what has changed since > > the original decision on this topic. In my opinion, there is a high cost > in > > moving to ASF now, namely I fear we will loose many of the >1200 members > > and the momentum that I see in the workspace. To me there would need to > be > > strong reason for reverting this decision now. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Kosntantin > > > > Am Di., 8. Nov. 2022 um 10:35 Uhr schrieb Xintong Song < > > tonysong...@gmail.com>: > > > > > Hi Max, > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up. I'm open to a re-evaluation of the Slack > > > usages. > > > > > > In the initial discussion for creating the Slack workspace [1], > > leveraging > > > the ASF Slack was indeed brought up as an alternative by many folks. I > > > think we have chosen a dedicated Flink Slack over the ASF Slack mainly > > for > > > two reasons. > > > - ASF Slack is limited to people with an @apache.org email address > > > - With a dedicated Flink Slack, we have the full authority to manage > and > > > customize it. E.g., archiving / removing improper channels, reporting > the > > > build and benchmark reports to channels, subscribing and re-post Flink > > blog > > > posts. > > > As far as I can see, these concerns for the ASF slack have not changed > > > since the previous decision. > > > > > > On the other hand, could you explain a bit more about what are the > > problems > > > / drawbacks that you see in the current Flink Slack? > > > - I assume having to join too many workspaces counts one > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Xintong > > > > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n43r4qmwprhdmzrj494dbbwr9w7bbdcv > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:51 PM Martijn Visser < > martijnvis...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > If you click on the link from Beam via an incognito window/logged out > > of > > > > Slack, you will be prompted to provide the workspace URL of the ASF. > If > > > you > > > > do that, you're prompted for a login screen or you can create an > > account. > > > > Creating an account prompts you to have an @apache.org email > address. > > > See > > > > https://imgur.com/a/jXvr5Ai > > > > > > > > So for me that's a -1 for switching to the ASF workspace. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:52 PM Austin Bennett <aus...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 to leveraging the larger ASF Community/Resources Slack Channel > > > rather > > > > > than an independant one ... ASSUMING ANYONE CAN JOIN [ so that > needs > > to > > > > be > > > > > verified ]. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 9:05 AM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> There is a way to work around the invite issue. For example, the > > Beam > > > > >> project has a direct invite link which sends you to the #beam > > channel: > > > > >> https://app.slack.com/client/T4S1WH2J3/C9H0YNP3P I'm not 100% > sure > > > > >> whether > > > > >> this link actually works. I've take it from: > > > > >> https://beam.apache.org/community/join-beam/ > > > > >> > > > > >> -Max > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 1:48 PM Martijn Visser < > > > martijnvis...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi Max, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I wonder how that has played out since the creation of the > Slack > > > > >> > workspace? I haven't been following the Slack communication. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I think it has primarily played a role next to the existing User > > > > mailing > > > > >> > list: lots of user questions. There were maybe a handful of > > > > >> conversations > > > > >> > where the result of the conversation was a request to open a > Jira, > > > > >> create a > > > > >> > FLIP or open up a discussion on the Dev list. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > There is an invite link that they can use. Maybe not the most > > > > >> > straight-forward process but I think it doesn't stop users from > > > > joining. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > That's only possible to use for those with an @apache.org > e-mail > > > > >> address, > > > > >> > see https://infra.apache.org/slack.html. Anyone else would need > > to > > > be > > > > >> > invited by a committer, but I wouldn't be in favour of needing > to > > > > spend > > > > >> > committers time in adding/inviting members on an ASF Slack > > instance. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Best regards, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Martijn > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 12:33 PM Maximilian Michels < > > m...@apache.org> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> Hey Martijn, hi Chesnay, > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >The big problem of using the ASF Slack instance is that users > > can > > > > join > > > > >> >> any Slack channel, including ones outside of Flink. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> That is one of the main motivations for proposing to move to > the > > > ASF > > > > >> >> Slack. We can create an unlimited number of "flink-XY" channels > > in > > > > the > > > > >> ASF > > > > >> >> Slack, although one or two are probably all we need. It seems > > > logical > > > > >> that > > > > >> >> we share the Slack workspace, just like the other > infrastructure > > > like > > > > >> JIRA, > > > > >> >> mail, Jenkins, web server, etc. I guess I'm just in too many > > Slack > > > > >> >> workspaces already. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> From an ASF standpoint, I think it would be desirable to > channel > > > > people > > > > >> >> into the main workspace to promote the software foundation. > Also, > > > the > > > > >> main > > > > >> >> point of communication should still be the mailing lists. I > > wonder > > > > how > > > > >> that > > > > >> >> has played out since the creation of the Slack workspace? I > > haven't > > > > >> been > > > > >> >> following the Slack communication. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >Not to mention that non-committers need to be invited by an > ASF > > > > Slack > > > > >> >> user to be able to join. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> There is an invite link that they can use. Maybe not the most > > > > >> >> straight-forward process but I think it doesn't stop users from > > > > >> joining. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> Linen is pretty nice, especially for making Slack searchable > via > > > > search > > > > >> >> engines. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> -Max > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 2:44 PM Chesnay Schepler < > > > ches...@apache.org> > > > > >> >> wrote: > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >>> According to Robert linen is supposed to show the entire > > history. > > > > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> On 03/11/2022 14:27, Martijn Visser wrote: > > > > >> >>> > Addition: I'm not sure if Linen actually provides the > messages > > > > that > > > > >> are > > > > >> >>> > older, but I can't test that since we've only recently > > > integrated > > > > >> it. > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 2:23 PM Martijn Visser < > > > > >> >>> martijnvis...@apache.org> > > > > >> >>> > wrote: > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >> Hi Max, > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >> From my experience, most ASF projects actually don't use > the > > > > >> official > > > > >> >>> >> Slack, but their own instance. That has happened with > > Airflow, > > > > >> >>> Iceberg, > > > > >> >>> >> Hudi etc. > > > > >> >>> >> The big problem of using the ASF Slack instance is that > users > > > can > > > > >> >>> join any > > > > >> >>> >> Slack channel, including ones outside of Flink. Not to > > mention > > > > that > > > > >> >>> >> non-committers need to be invited by an ASF Slack user to > be > > > able > > > > >> to > > > > >> >>> join. > > > > >> >>> >> The problem with the history is mitigated by using the > > service > > > > from > > > > >> >>> Linen > > > > >> >>> >> https://www.linen.dev/s/apache-flink > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >> I prefer the current Slack instance of the ASF one. > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >> Thanks, > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >> Martijn > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 1:14 PM Maximilian Michels < > > > > m...@apache.org> > > > > >> >>> wrote: > > > > >> >>> >> > > > > >> >>> >>> Hi, > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> A while ago the Flink community decided to create a Slack > > > > >> workspace > > > > >> >>> [1]. I > > > > >> >>> >>> wonder, is there a particular reason why we created our > own > > > > Slack > > > > >> >>> >>> workspace > > > > >> >>> >>> and do not use the official ASF Slack [2]? It looks like > > most > > > > ASF > > > > >> >>> projects > > > > >> >>> >>> use the official Slack. Using the official Slack makes > > > > >> collaboration > > > > >> >>> with > > > > >> >>> >>> other projects easier but it also comes with additional > > > > benefits, > > > > >> >>> e.g. > > > > >> >>> >>> free > > > > >> >>> >>> unlimited history (our current workspace suffers from > > limited > > > > >> >>> history). > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> Since the vote thread[1] mentioned a re-evaluation of the > > > > decision > > > > >> >>> until > > > > >> >>> >>> the end of 2022, I'd like to propose to move our channels > to > > > the > > > > >> >>> official > > > > >> >>> >>> ASF Slack workspace. In my eyes, the dedicated workspace > is > > a > > > > bit > > > > >> of > > > > >> >>> an > > > > >> >>> >>> overkill and we're better off joining the rest of the ASF > > > > >> community. > > > > >> >>> Let > > > > >> >>> >>> me > > > > >> >>> >>> know what you think. > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> -Max > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> [1] > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j2kdh3zx6rrb49mz5n2vb06g2knogxdj > > > > >> >>> >>> [2] https://infra.apache.org/slack.html > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > https://twitter.com/snntrable > > https://github.com/knaufk > > >
