As a developer, I visited the docs website [1] much much more often than the official main page website [2], and I think current docs website still looks a bit better than spark's [3] which did not change in the past ten years if my memory serves me correctly.
Until Deepthi raised this proposal, I just realized that current Flink's main page looks a bit outdated compared to other active top Apache projects. I think Maximilian's preferring to simple and elegant design is well revealed in the doc website, which might be welcome among software engineers. On the other hand, the main page website is the first entrance for everyone, not only developers, and I think a modern look would be better. +1 for this proposal and look forward to the changes. [1] https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-stable/ [2] https://flink.apache.org/ [3] https://spark.apache.org/docs/latest/ Best Yun Tang ________________________________ From: Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2023 2:20 To: dev@flink.apache.org <dev@flink.apache.org>; Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the Apache Flink website Maybe to expand on the comment from Max: From a technical perspective the website and documentation are 2 entirely different things, but from a users perspective could easily be perceived as being "the website". Again I feel like we lack a concrete list of issues; that would've likely answered this question already. On 23/02/2023 16:43, Maximilian Michels wrote: > Is this targeting the landing page, the main website, or the entire > website including the documentation? > > Compare the main page of Spark with its documentation: > https://spark.apache.org/ > https://spark.apache.org/docs/latest/ > > I like the consistency of the current Flink page, but it is obviously > easier to change only the main page first and leave the documentation > unchanged. > > -Max > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 3:07 AM Mohan, Deepthi > <mdee...@amazon.com.invalid> wrote: >> Thank you all for the feedback. Point taken about decoupling >> content/structure and design. As a first step, I can work with an AWS UX >> designer and come with a list of suggestions and wireframes. And while we >> aren't forming a committee yet, if anyone wants to collaborate, please reach >> out. >> >> On 2/21/23, 5:31 AM, "Chesnay Schepler" <ches...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not >> click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know >> the content is safe. >> >> >> >> Max is raising some good points. >> >> Ultimately, you are free to propose changes; we don't categorically >> reject changes to the website. >> >> On the flip-side, the proposed changes should also be as granular as >> possible, because there's no real reason why changing the content >> structure should be coupled to the design of the page or vice-versa. >> >> Please don't approach this as a "grand redesign" of the website where >> we'll just a flip a switch eventually to go from old to new. >> >> Rather, break down the "problems with the website" into separate issue >> that we can tackle one-by-one. >> Because of that I'd also be against creating a "committee" at this time, >> because that just makes it imo more likely that this will be handled as >> an all-or-nothing/waterfall kind of thing. >> >> On 21/02/2023 11:31, Maximilian Michels wrote: >> > -0 for a redesign. I might be the only one but I like the current >> > simple design. I find it quite elegant. Apache projects do not tend to >> > have fancy websites. That's ok. If you consider the AWS pages, they >> > are far from being modern or beautiful. >> > >> > A redesign often is appealing but it can take a huge amount of time to >> > get it right. This can mean the project is unable to focus on the main >> > target of delivering great software and documentation. >> > >> > Some concerns: >> > 1. Content regressions (content not being displayed properly, content >> > and graphics not fitting anymore, code formatting breaking) >> > 2. Higher entry barrier for committing (tooling / formatting becomes >> > complicated) >> > 3. Lack of focus on the content which needs work too (e.g. outdated >> > information, lack of documentation of features) >> > >> > That said, I would support a redesign if we prevent regressions and >> > build on standard tooling and best practices. I'm just not convinced >> > (yet) that the pros outweigh the cons. >> > >> > -Max >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 9:57 AM Danny Cranmer >> <dannycran...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Deepthi, >> >> >> >> +1 for a redesign. >> >> >> >> I like the idea of setting up a committee/team that can produce some >> mock >> >> ups and create a FLIP where the community can elect the best look >> and feel. >> >> I very much look forward to seeing the results! >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Danny >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 8:37 AM Jing Ge <j...@ververica.com.invalid> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi Deepthi, >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for the feedback. Zeplin I mentioned is a UX/UI design >> software[1], >> >>> it is not Zeppelin. >> >>> >> >>> It is great to hear that Amazon UX/UI designers would contribute. >> There was >> >>> a lack of front-end engineers in the past. Hopefully we could find >> enough >> >>> front-end contributors for this big project. >> >>> >> >>> +1 looking forward to your proposal. >> >>> >> >>> Best regards, >> >>> Jing >> >>> >> >>> [1] https://zeplin.io/ >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 8:59 AM Shuo Cheng <njucs...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hey! >> >>>> >> >>>> +1 for the proposal, the first page of Flink is more like a >> tutorial >> >>>> document for developers compared to the other top apache projects. >> >>> Looking >> >>>> forward to a more attractive Flink website. >> >>>> >> >>>> Best regards, >> >>>> Shuo >> >>>> >> >>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 8:13 AM Mohan, Deepthi >> >>> <mdee...@amazon.com.invalid >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am a product manager for Kinesis Data Analytics, AWS’s managed >> >>> service >> >>>>> for Apache Flink. I’m creating this thread to gauge community >> interest >> >>> in >> >>>>> redesigning the Flink website: https://flink.apache.org/. >> >>>>> A few of our customers have provided feedback that the Apache >> Flink >> >>>>> website looks dated. One customer claimed that the website looks >> >>>>> “unwelcoming” and lacks useful graphics and colors. Another said >> it >> >>> looks >> >>>>> “like a wiki page thrown together by developers.” Customers also >> point >> >>>> out >> >>>>> other related Apache project websites: https://spark.apache.org/ >> and >> >>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/ as having “modern” user design. Many >> were >> >>>>> surprised to hear that Flink has been a top-5 Apache project for >> >>> several >> >>>>> years now. >> >>>>> As https://flink.apache.org/ is likely the first page someone new >> to >> >>>>> Flink encounters, it will be helpful to modernize the look and >> feel of >> >>>> the >> >>>>> website. Given the growing interest in Flink, we have an >> opportunity to >> >>>>> make content and features visible and easily accessible to >> customers. >> >>> I’d >> >>>>> like to learn if this is an idea we should pursue. I can create a >> FLIP >> >>> if >> >>>>> there is interest. >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> Deepthi Mohan >> >>>>> >> >>
