Re: Trademark approval request: Fluss Forward London, 22 to 23 September 2026

[Mark Thomas]

Alex,

While I accept that the wording of the policy could be clearer, you have 
taken a very selective reading of the policy to reach your conclusion.

Your reading does not consider the impact of "might" and how that 
impacts the "only". To add a few words to make my point:

"...might be considered competing only with other events that are about 
the same Apache project or related Apache projects *but could be 
considered as conflicting with any event*"

Further, your analysis ignored the explicit statement a few paragraphs 
below which reinforces the correct interpretation:

"A third-party event, or a project event (i.e., an Apache Foo event run 
by the Apache Foo PMC) is in conflict if it is within six weeks of a 
Foundation Event in the same geographical area, or within three weeks in 
a different geographical area."

Thank you for pointing out the version number in the title was not 
updated in the 1.7 update. I'll get that corrected (most likely by 
dropping the version from the title for consistency with the other 
policies).

Kind regards,

Mark


On 30/04/2026 18:53, Alexander Walden via trademarks wrote:
Dear Mark,

Thank you for clarifying the intended meaning. I want to be 
straightforward with you: the intent you've described is not what the 
policy says, and I think this is worth flagging rather than glossing over.

The published text states that small events "might be considered 
competing *only* with other events that are about the same Apache 
project or related Apache projects." The word "only" is a limiting term, 
and the explicit inclusion of Community Over Code in the /large 
events/ clause, paired with its omission from the /small events/ clause, 
reads as a deliberate distinction rather than an oversight. Applicants 
and PMCs reasonably rely on the published wording when planning events 
months in advance, committing venues, and engaging sponsors. An 
unwritten interpretation that inverts the plain reading puts everyone in 
a difficult position. Software does not do what we intend; it does what 
we write. Policy is no different.

As a separate but related observation: the policy page itself shows a 
version inconsistency. The page header lists it as version 1.6, while 
the revision history at the foot of the page records v1.7 dated 2024 as 
current. It is a small thing on its own, but combined with the wording 
issue we have discussed, it suggests the policy document would benefit 
from a careful editorial pass. I mention it only because applicants and 
PMCs are being asked to comply with a document whose own metadata is 
internally inconsistent.

I appreciate that you have offered to reword the policy, and I would 
encourage that to happen. In the meantime, I would ask the Foundation to 
consider two things:

 1. For our specific case, to apply the policy as written rather than as
    intended, given that we planned in good faith against the published
    text. Our proposed events are all under 200 attendees and project-
    focused on Flink and related streaming projects, which on the
    published wording places them outside the scope of conflict with a
    multi-project Foundation Event.
 2. More broadly, to review and update the policy text so that it
    reflects the intent, the version metadata is consistent, and future
    applicants are not placed in the same position.

I might also raise this with the CoC planners as you suggested, but I 
wanted to make the textual point to you directly first, since you are 
the policy owner.

Kind regards, Alex


On 30. Apr 2026, at 19:42, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

Alex,

The intended meaning is:

- anything with 6 weeks of a foundation event in the same geographical
 area is always considered in conflict with the foundation event
- anything else is considered on a case by case basis
- >= 250 attendees will be generally be looked at for of conflicts
 with any other ASF project based events
- < 250 attendees will be generally be looked at for conflicts
 with events targetting the same or related projects

Kind regards,

Mark


On 30/04/2026 18:29, Alexander Walden wrote:
Dear Mark,
Thank you for the quick response and for looping in the CoC planners.
Before escalating to them for an exception, I'd like to flag a 
question on the policy reading itself, because I think the current 
text actually supports our original interpretation rather than 
requiring an exception.
The policy distinguishes two categories of events:
1. Small events (under 250 attendees) "might be considered competing
   *only* with other events that are about the same Apache project or
   related Apache projects."
2. Large events (over 250 attendees) "may be considered competing with
   other events even in other Apache project areas, or with the ASF's
   own Community Over Code conferences."
Our proposed events are small (under 200 attendees) and are focused 
on Apache Flink and related streaming projects. Community Over Code 
is a multi-project Foundation Event, not a Flink-specific or 
streaming- specific event. On a plain reading of the small-events 
clause, our events therefore fall outside the scope of what can be 
considered competing with CoC. The explicit inclusion of CoC in the 
large-events clause, and its omission from the small-events clause, 
appears intentional.
The 6-week / 3-week date conflict windows then logically apply once 
an event has first been determined to be in a competing category. 
Reading them to override the small/large distinction would render 
that distinction meaningless.
Given your acknowledgment that the wording could be read differently, 
would you be open to confirming this interpretation directly, rather 
than us pursuing this through the exceptions process? If the policy 
is genuinely intended to bar all small project-focused events within 
6 weeks of any CoC in the same region, that would be a meaningful 
change worth clarifying in the rewording you mentioned, and we'd of 
course respect a clearer rule going forward.
Happy to discuss on a call if helpful.
Kind regards, Alex
Alexander Walden
CEO
al...@ververica.com
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On 30. Apr 2026, at 19:07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

Dear Alex,

My reading of the event policy is that any event within 6 weeks of 
community over code in the same geographical area is considered in 
conflict and not allowed.

I can see how the current wording might have lead you to a different 
conclusion. I'll see if I can reword it to make it clearer.

I am not able to grant exceptions to the policy but you can appeal 
to the CoC planners for an exception. You can reach them on: 
plann...@apachecon.com (cc'd)

Mark


On 28/04/2026 22:55, Alexander Walden via trademarks wrote:
Dear Fluss community, dear Apache Trademarks team, dear JB and Jark,
We would like to request approval for the use of Apache® and Apache 
Fluss™ marks in connection with *Fluss Forward*, a one-and-a-half- 
day community event organised by Ververica GmbH and positioned as 
the official pre-event to Big Data LDN 2026. Below is the 
information requested under the Third Party Event Branding Policy, 
with appropriate adjustments for the project's incubating status.
*Topic focus* Apache Fluss (incubating) and the streaming storage 
layer for real-time analytics: architecture and design, integration 
with Apache Flink and the wider streaming ecosystem, production 
deployment patterns, and early adopter case studies. Reference site 
for the project is https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// 
www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1YTLIQoryi0dscWb2eJvYu 
fluss.apache.org/&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2 
<https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://fluss.apache.org/ 
&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2>.
*Organiser* Ververica GmbH, Munich. Single-venue event in London.
*Dates and venue*
 * Tuesday 22 September 2026: full conference day
 * Wednesday 23 September 2026: half-day of hands-on labs and Apache
   Fluss trainings (morning)
The event is positioned as the *official pre-event to Big Data LDN 
2026* (a third-party commercial conference running 23 to 24 
September 2026 in London). Big Data LDN is not an Apache event; the 
adjacency is intended to give Fluss Forward attendees an easy 
onward path into the wider data-platform community without creating 
any branding overlap.
*Expected attendees* ≤200, capped. The event sits well under the 
250 threshold defined in the policy, and we are not aware of any 
conflicting Apache or Foundation Event in the same window.
*Format and rationale* A focused, single-stop event close to a 
major data-industry gathering is intended to:
 * Concentrate Fluss-specific technical content for an audience that is
   already travelling for adjacent events
 * Give early adopters, contributors, and prospective committers a low-
   friction venue to meet
 * Provide hands-on labs and trainings on Day 1.5, accessible to
   attendees who would not otherwise allocate dedicated travel for an
   incubating-project event
 * Support the podling's community growth, which we understand is a
   primary goal during incubation
*(P)PMC and mentor involvement to date and going forward* We are 
sending this request to dev@fluss.apache.org 
<mailto:dev@fluss.apache.org> so the PPMC can record consensus 
through its usual process, with JB Onofre and Jark Wu cc'd 
directly. We commit to:
 * Engaging the Fluss PPMC early on programme direction and content
   standards
 * Inviting PPMC representatives and/or Incubator PMC mentors onto the
   Selection Committee, with representation from at least two different
   employers per the policy
 * Reserving speaking slots and contributor-track time for PPMC
   members, IPMC mentors, and committers
 * Ensuring any release, roadmap, or governance discussion on stage is
   aligned with how the podling itself communicates these topics
*Marks requested*
 * Apache® (word mark)
 * Apache Fluss™ (word mark, in its incubating form)
 * Apache Fluss logo, for use in referring to the project (not in event
   primary branding), per the Use of logos and graphics section
Event primary branding will be "Fluss Forward” (domain: fluss- 
forward.org) All references to the project will use the full name 
"Apache Fluss" on first and most prominent mention, will include 
the *standard incubator disclaimer* ("Apache Fluss is an effort 
undergoing incubation at the Apache Software Foundation..."), and 
will link to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/ 
url?q%3Dhttps://fluss.apache.org/&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw0geZhOlAS73mdrPRxgn4eQ 
&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2 
<https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://fluss.apache.org/ 
&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2>. The 
standard ASF trademark attribution block will appear on every event 
page.
*ASF as Community Partner and events calendar listing* We propose 
listing *The Apache Software Foundation as a Community Partner* on 
the event website, with ASF logo, descriptive blurb, and link back 
to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url? 
q%3Dhttps://www.apache.org/%26source%3Dgmail-&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw31KejJI4UQWaJAC0ZIeIRM 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3KaUbEbKDQ5yyu8j25mXoK 
<https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://www.apache.org/ 
&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3KaUbEbKDQ5yyu8j25mXoK>. We 
will defer to ASF or project representatives on the exact text, 
logo asset and placement.
We would also like to invite the ASF to *list the event on https:// 
events.apache.org/ <https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// 
www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1YTLIQoryi0dscWb2eJvYu 
events.apache.org/&source=gmail- 
imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw04QgzUL_FC1ecrSrToyVV1>* once 
approved, and will provide the calendar entry in whatever format is 
most convenient.
*Event selection process*
 * An open *Call for Papers* will run for the conference day, with
   selection based on technical merit
 * The Selection Committee will include PPMC representatives from
   Apache Fluss and/or IPMC mentors, drawn from at least two different
   organisations
 * Special attention will be given to ensuring *open educational
   content directly applicable to Apache Fluss* is present in the
   programme, not solely vendor content or content about third-party
   products built on Fluss
*For-profit / non-profit* The event is run on a commercial basis by 
Ververica GmbH (ticketed, with sponsorships). In line with our 
wider 2026 community programme, ticket prices will be set at 
roughly *USD 100 to 200 equivalent in local currency*, well below 
typical industry pricing, to make attendance accessible to 
students, individual contributors, and practitioners from 
organisations that would not fund a flagship-event ticket.
*Anti-harassment policy* We will adopt the ASF Anti-Harassment 
Policy in full and link to it from the event site.
*Next steps* We would welcome an early indication from the PPMC and 
from Trademarks so we can announce the event and open the CFP, and 
we are of course happy to adjust any of the above to fit ASF and 
Incubator requirements.
Many thanks for your time.
Best regards, Alex
Alexander Walden
CEO
al...@ververica.com
+49 171 9253360
www.ververica.com <https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// 
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