Weighing in here. Mark is correct about the policy's intent because _any_ event that close to Community Over Code risks pulling attendees and potential sponsors away from _both_ events. (Also, please don't bother me with further pedantic arguments, they will never win me over.)
The ONLY circumstance helping your case for an exception is Fluss Forward's co-location with a larger, unrelated event. This helps mitigate the potential problems with the 18-day gap, because anyone attending the Fluss event is probably an attendee of the Big Data LDN 2026 event already (and same with sponsors). For that reason, I am willing to grant an exception in this year's case for Fluss Forward as VP, Conferences for the ASF, if Mark concurs. (I cannot speak for the use of the ASF trademark and name as a "community planner," that is solely Mark's purview.) Also, from one conference organizer to another: another potential detail you may have missed is that you will be starting this event the day after Yom Kippur, which may limit potential attendance from non-local attendees. Peace, BKP Brian Proffitt VP, Marketing & Publicity VP, Conferences On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 6:32 PM Mark Thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Alex, > > While I accept that the wording of the policy could be clearer, you have > taken a very selective reading of the policy to reach your conclusion. > > Your reading does not consider the impact of "might" and how that > impacts the "only". To add a few words to make my point: > > "...might be considered competing only with other events that are about > the same Apache project or related Apache projects *but could be > considered as conflicting with any event*" > > Further, your analysis ignored the explicit statement a few paragraphs > below which reinforces the correct interpretation: > > "A third-party event, or a project event (i.e., an Apache Foo event run > by the Apache Foo PMC) is in conflict if it is within six weeks of a > Foundation Event in the same geographical area, or within three weeks in > a different geographical area." > > Thank you for pointing out the version number in the title was not > updated in the 1.7 update. I'll get that corrected (most likely by > dropping the version from the title for consistency with the other > policies). > > Kind regards, > > Mark > > > On 30/04/2026 18:53, Alexander Walden via trademarks wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > Thank you for clarifying the intended meaning. I want to be > > straightforward with you: the intent you've described is not what the > > policy says, and I think this is worth flagging rather than glossing over. > > > > The published text states that small events "might be considered > > competing *only* with other events that are about the same Apache > > project or related Apache projects." The word "only" is a limiting term, > > and the explicit inclusion of Community Over Code in the /large > > events/ clause, paired with its omission from the /small events/ clause, > > reads as a deliberate distinction rather than an oversight. Applicants > > and PMCs reasonably rely on the published wording when planning events > > months in advance, committing venues, and engaging sponsors. An > > unwritten interpretation that inverts the plain reading puts everyone in > > a difficult position. Software does not do what we intend; it does what > > we write. Policy is no different. > > > > As a separate but related observation: the policy page itself shows a > > version inconsistency. The page header lists it as version 1.6, while > > the revision history at the foot of the page records v1.7 dated 2024 as > > current. It is a small thing on its own, but combined with the wording > > issue we have discussed, it suggests the policy document would benefit > > from a careful editorial pass. I mention it only because applicants and > > PMCs are being asked to comply with a document whose own metadata is > > internally inconsistent. > > > > I appreciate that you have offered to reword the policy, and I would > > encourage that to happen. In the meantime, I would ask the Foundation to > > consider two things: > > > > 1. For our specific case, to apply the policy as written rather than as > > intended, given that we planned in good faith against the published > > text. Our proposed events are all under 200 attendees and project- > > focused on Flink and related streaming projects, which on the > > published wording places them outside the scope of conflict with a > > multi-project Foundation Event. > > 2. More broadly, to review and update the policy text so that it > > reflects the intent, the version metadata is consistent, and future > > applicants are not placed in the same position. > > > > I might also raise this with the CoC planners as you suggested, but I > > wanted to make the textual point to you directly first, since you are > > the policy owner. > > > > Kind regards, Alex > > > > > >> On 30. Apr 2026, at 19:42, Mark Thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Alex, > >> > >> The intended meaning is: > >> > >> - anything with 6 weeks of a foundation event in the same geographical > >> area is always considered in conflict with the foundation event > >> - anything else is considered on a case by case basis > >> - >= 250 attendees will be generally be looked at for of conflicts > >> with any other ASF project based events > >> - < 250 attendees will be generally be looked at for conflicts > >> with events targetting the same or related projects > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> On 30/04/2026 18:29, Alexander Walden wrote: > >>> Dear Mark, > >>> Thank you for the quick response and for looping in the CoC planners. > >>> Before escalating to them for an exception, I'd like to flag a > >>> question on the policy reading itself, because I think the current > >>> text actually supports our original interpretation rather than > >>> requiring an exception. > >>> The policy distinguishes two categories of events: > >>> 1. Small events (under 250 attendees) "might be considered competing > >>> *only* with other events that are about the same Apache project or > >>> related Apache projects." > >>> 2. Large events (over 250 attendees) "may be considered competing with > >>> other events even in other Apache project areas, or with the ASF's > >>> own Community Over Code conferences." > >>> Our proposed events are small (under 200 attendees) and are focused > >>> on Apache Flink and related streaming projects. Community Over Code > >>> is a multi-project Foundation Event, not a Flink-specific or > >>> streaming- specific event. On a plain reading of the small-events > >>> clause, our events therefore fall outside the scope of what can be > >>> considered competing with CoC. The explicit inclusion of CoC in the > >>> large-events clause, and its omission from the small-events clause, > >>> appears intentional. > >>> The 6-week / 3-week date conflict windows then logically apply once > >>> an event has first been determined to be in a competing category. > >>> Reading them to override the small/large distinction would render > >>> that distinction meaningless. > >>> Given your acknowledgment that the wording could be read differently, > >>> would you be open to confirming this interpretation directly, rather > >>> than us pursuing this through the exceptions process? If the policy > >>> is genuinely intended to bar all small project-focused events within > >>> 6 weeks of any CoC in the same region, that would be a meaningful > >>> change worth clarifying in the rewording you mentioned, and we'd of > >>> course respect a clearer rule going forward. > >>> Happy to discuss on a call if helpful. > >>> Kind regards, Alex > >>> Alexander Walden > >>> CEO > >>> [email protected] > >>> +49 171 9253360 > >>> www.ververica.com <https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// > >>> www.ververica.com&source=gmail- > >>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw0Zq85CSf8yCeSiUNKj70wH> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ververica.com/ > >>> &source=gmail-imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1ILeLSH-X2WxzGbDtJPvhe> > >>> Ververica GmbH | Herzogspitalstrasse 24 | 80331 München | Germany > >>> Follow us: > >>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.linkedin.com/company/ > >>> ververica/posts/?feedView%3Dall&source=gmail- > >>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw0PGMy1hcKBU7tq0tx51GAy> > >>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/ > >>> @ververica&source=gmail- > >>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1ox7swCGKcTrsps5W8U80w><https:// > >>> www.google.com/url?q=https://open.spotify.com/&source=gmail- > >>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1lEjbJUCh36YybG50YERaa > >>> show/2XME9h8iBOyr6YupqM99ir?si=87b064644add42a1>Available on: > >>> <https:// aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/prodview- > >>> luvmqd6leha4i><https:// marketplace.microsoft.com/en-us/product/saas/ > >>> ververica.vvc_managed? tab=Overview> > >>> Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Information <https://www.google.com/url? > >>> q=https://www.ververica.com/&source=gmail- > >>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1ILeLSH-X2WxzGbDtJPvhe mandatory- > >>> information> > >>>> On 30. Apr 2026, at 19:07, Mark Thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dear Alex, > >>>> > >>>> My reading of the event policy is that any event within 6 weeks of > >>>> community over code in the same geographical area is considered in > >>>> conflict and not allowed. > >>>> > >>>> I can see how the current wording might have lead you to a different > >>>> conclusion. I'll see if I can reword it to make it clearer. > >>>> > >>>> I am not able to grant exceptions to the policy but you can appeal > >>>> to the CoC planners for an exception. You can reach them on: > >>>> [email protected] (cc'd) > >>>> > >>>> Mark > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 28/04/2026 22:55, Alexander Walden via trademarks wrote: > >>>>> Dear Fluss community, dear Apache Trademarks team, dear JB and Jark, > >>>>> We would like to request approval for the use of Apache® and Apache > >>>>> Fluss™ marks in connection with *Fluss Forward*, a one-and-a-half- > >>>>> day community event organised by Ververica GmbH and positioned as > >>>>> the official pre-event to Big Data LDN 2026. Below is the > >>>>> information requested under the Third Party Event Branding Policy, > >>>>> with appropriate adjustments for the project's incubating status. > >>>>> *Topic focus* Apache Fluss (incubating) and the streaming storage > >>>>> layer for real-time analytics: architecture and design, integration > >>>>> with Apache Flink and the wider streaming ecosystem, production > >>>>> deployment patterns, and early adopter case studies. Reference site > >>>>> for the project is https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// > >>>>> www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1YTLIQoryi0dscWb2eJvYu > >>>>> fluss.apache.org/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2 > >>>>> <https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://fluss.apache.org/ > >>>>> &source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2>. > >>>>> *Organiser* Ververica GmbH, Munich. Single-venue event in London. > >>>>> *Dates and venue* > >>>>> * Tuesday 22 September 2026: full conference day > >>>>> * Wednesday 23 September 2026: half-day of hands-on labs and Apache > >>>>> Fluss trainings (morning) > >>>>> The event is positioned as the *official pre-event to Big Data LDN > >>>>> 2026* (a third-party commercial conference running 23 to 24 > >>>>> September 2026 in London). Big Data LDN is not an Apache event; the > >>>>> adjacency is intended to give Fluss Forward attendees an easy > >>>>> onward path into the wider data-platform community without creating > >>>>> any branding overlap. > >>>>> *Expected attendees* ≤200, capped. The event sits well under the > >>>>> 250 threshold defined in the policy, and we are not aware of any > >>>>> conflicting Apache or Foundation Event in the same window. > >>>>> *Format and rationale* A focused, single-stop event close to a > >>>>> major data-industry gathering is intended to: > >>>>> * Concentrate Fluss-specific technical content for an audience that is > >>>>> already travelling for adjacent events > >>>>> * Give early adopters, contributors, and prospective committers a low- > >>>>> friction venue to meet > >>>>> * Provide hands-on labs and trainings on Day 1.5, accessible to > >>>>> attendees who would not otherwise allocate dedicated travel for an > >>>>> incubating-project event > >>>>> * Support the podling's community growth, which we understand is a > >>>>> primary goal during incubation > >>>>> *(P)PMC and mentor involvement to date and going forward* We are > >>>>> sending this request to [email protected] > >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> so the PPMC can record consensus > >>>>> through its usual process, with JB Onofre and Jark Wu cc'd > >>>>> directly. We commit to: > >>>>> * Engaging the Fluss PPMC early on programme direction and content > >>>>> standards > >>>>> * Inviting PPMC representatives and/or Incubator PMC mentors onto the > >>>>> Selection Committee, with representation from at least two different > >>>>> employers per the policy > >>>>> * Reserving speaking slots and contributor-track time for PPMC > >>>>> members, IPMC mentors, and committers > >>>>> * Ensuring any release, roadmap, or governance discussion on stage is > >>>>> aligned with how the podling itself communicates these topics > >>>>> *Marks requested* > >>>>> * Apache® (word mark) > >>>>> * Apache Fluss™ (word mark, in its incubating form) > >>>>> * Apache Fluss logo, for use in referring to the project (not in event > >>>>> primary branding), per the Use of logos and graphics section > >>>>> Event primary branding will be "Fluss Forward” (domain: fluss- > >>>>> forward.org) All references to the project will use the full name > >>>>> "Apache Fluss" on first and most prominent mention, will include > >>>>> the *standard incubator disclaimer* ("Apache Fluss is an effort > >>>>> undergoing incubation at the Apache Software Foundation..."), and > >>>>> will link to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/ > >>>>> url?q%3Dhttps://fluss.apache.org/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw0geZhOlAS73mdrPRxgn4eQ > >>>>> &source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2 > >>>>> <https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://fluss.apache.org/ > >>>>> &source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0wsITK7tgK7bjSQu0l0bW2>. The > >>>>> standard ASF trademark attribution block will appear on every event > >>>>> page. > >>>>> *ASF as Community Partner and events calendar listing* We propose > >>>>> listing *The Apache Software Foundation as a Community Partner* on > >>>>> the event website, with ASF logo, descriptive blurb, and link back > >>>>> to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url? > >>>>> q%3Dhttps://www.apache.org/%26source%3Dgmail-&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw31KejJI4UQWaJAC0ZIeIRM > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3KaUbEbKDQ5yyu8j25mXoK > >>>>> <https:// www.google.com/url?q=https://www.apache.org/ > >>>>> &source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3KaUbEbKDQ5yyu8j25mXoK>. We > >>>>> will defer to ASF or project representatives on the exact text, > >>>>> logo asset and placement. > >>>>> We would also like to invite the ASF to *list the event on https:// > >>>>> events.apache.org/ <https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// > >>>>> www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1YTLIQoryi0dscWb2eJvYu > >>>>> events.apache.org/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw04QgzUL_FC1ecrSrToyVV1>* once > >>>>> approved, and will provide the calendar entry in whatever format is > >>>>> most convenient. > >>>>> *Event selection process* > >>>>> * An open *Call for Papers* will run for the conference day, with > >>>>> selection based on technical merit > >>>>> * The Selection Committee will include PPMC representatives from > >>>>> Apache Fluss and/or IPMC mentors, drawn from at least two different > >>>>> organisations > >>>>> * Special attention will be given to ensuring *open educational > >>>>> content directly applicable to Apache Fluss* is present in the > >>>>> programme, not solely vendor content or content about third-party > >>>>> products built on Fluss > >>>>> *For-profit / non-profit* The event is run on a commercial basis by > >>>>> Ververica GmbH (ticketed, with sponsorships). In line with our > >>>>> wider 2026 community programme, ticket prices will be set at > >>>>> roughly *USD 100 to 200 equivalent in local currency*, well below > >>>>> typical industry pricing, to make attendance accessible to > >>>>> students, individual contributors, and practitioners from > >>>>> organisations that would not fund a flagship-event ticket. > >>>>> *Anti-harassment policy* We will adopt the ASF Anti-Harassment > >>>>> Policy in full and link to it from the event site. > >>>>> *Next steps* We would welcome an early indication from the PPMC and > >>>>> from Trademarks so we can announce the event and open the CFP, and > >>>>> we are of course happy to adjust any of the above to fit ASF and > >>>>> Incubator requirements. > >>>>> Many thanks for your time. > >>>>> Best regards, Alex > >>>>> Alexander Walden > >>>>> CEO > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> +49 171 9253360 > >>>>> www.ververica.com <https://www.google.com/url?q=https:// > >>>>> www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw1YTLIQoryi0dscWb2eJvYu > >>>>> www.ververica.com&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw14SCck3ifRzkkSXj-rdv1q> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url? > >>>>> q%3Dhttps://www.ververica.com/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw2EVeG-ZZtBtYKaTrTbAN0h > >>>>> &source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw2H76NI0W4vR5dN7nD-YgTi> > >>>>> Ververica GmbH | Herzogspitalstrasse 24 | 80331 München | Germany > >>>>> Follow us: > >>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url? > >>>>> q%3Dhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw03htWvih-Jtg3GPdxKCYgn > >>>>> ververica/posts/?feedView%3Dall&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw0FNl5ttFkkOBSnJ4HQCcEj> > >>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url? > >>>>> q%3Dhttps://www.youtube.com/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw3N9XdM-50YeBpIai9_6_NL > >>>>> @ververica&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3qzBQWfEFc3vKDvcyvXSwd><https:// > >>>>> www.google.com/url?q=https://open.spotify.com/&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw3sleZFcXrGZQqC6LP4FYnU > >>>>> show/2XME9h8iBOyr6YupqM99ir?si=87b064644add42a1>Available on: <https:// > >>>>> aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/prodview- luvmqd6leha4i><https:// > >>>>> marketplace.microsoft.com/en-us/product/saas/ ververica.vvc_managed? > >>>>> tab=Overview> > >>>>> Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Information <https://www.google.com/url? > >>>>> q=https://www.google.com/url&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw0LzAqN9YEssdVGskXtYt_3? > >>>>> q=https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ververica.com/ > >>>>> %26source%3Dgmail-&source=gmail- > >>>>> imap&ust=1778175759000000&usg=AOvVaw2NSOwOt2MMHC8fIsnvyQlH > >>>>> imap&ust=1778173685000000&usg=AOvVaw2H76NI0W4vR5dN7nD-YgTi > >>>>> mandatory- information> > >>>> > >> > > >
