Hi,

thanks Tora and Christian for looking into this topic.
The root cause of all these issues is that some fonts that are required to
display a document as intended are not available on a system.

> That is impossible You cannot even list every known font. There are
> billions of fonts out there....

One could make the "fake fontlist" configurable.

Of course this has to be designed very carefully to avoid disappointment:
The is conflict potential when a font name shows up but the corresponding
font is just not available.

>> What a current OpenOffice.org user has to do after migration from
>> Microsoft Office on Windows to OpenOffice.org on one of the UNIX
>> variants is:
>> [snipped instructions for the Font Replacement dialog]

The font replacement dialog should not be needed for a situation like this.
The one exception is when the VCL.xcu/fontconfig/... based fallback does
not suffice. This should only happen, when e.g. company XYZ has a private
font "XYZscript", someone outside the company needs to work on the document
and doesn't have the original font but just a similar one.

> No, I would suggest to use the Font-Installation wizard to install the
> MS-Corefonts.

+1

>> It would be helpful if the font name box in the left side could list
>> fonts specified in the document that he/she faces.

Good idea. The same caveat about offering fonts that are not available
applies, though.
 
>> Here is another idea. The dialog File - Properties could have a tab
>> for fonts like Adobe Reader. The dialog would lists font names used
>> in the document with real font name for rendering texts side by side.
> 
> Yes, another concrete suggestion - although I probably wouldn't put it
> into the File|Properties dialog but maybe integrate it into the Stylist
> or somewhere in the Format-Menu

Good idea. Please file issues.

>> >>  - Disclosing a real font name for rendering a preview text
>> > 
>> > Indicating font-fallback and glyphfallback already has issues filed.

http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=7235

>> Users cannot understand the reason why appearance of his/her document
>> is ugly when automatic font replacement, font fallback, or glyph fallback
>> is occurred wrongly. There is no way to diagnose the phenomenon with
>> current OOo.
> 
> Yes, I agree, therefore I support the issues that request an indication
> that font/glyph fallback has occured.

Yup.
 
>> In fact, the current implementation of replacement and/or
>> fallback system sometimes works wrongly.
> 
> Yes, but then again this would be a bug in the current implementation
> that should be fixed (i.e. the fallback lists should be adapted
> accrodingly to produce better results) instead of adding a predefined
> and hardcoded list of Font-Replacements.

The predefined and hardcoded lists are really bad and almost unmaintainable,
because the effort to add a new font properly is proportional to the number
of known fonts:
    http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=68846
And the file format invites CVS merge conflicts, which are quite hard to
resolve:
    http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=33371

> Since the font-fallback list can only cover the more commonly used
> fonts, your suggestion from above (offer the fonts of the currently
> opened document in the dropdown of the fontreplacment dialog) makes
> perfectly sense.  This way the user can easily define replacements for
> the less-common fonts that maybe only she and her correspondance uses.

+1

>> >>  - Font file discovery procedure
>> [...] 
> Now fontconfig should cover all this. (not sure whether chkfontpath is
> still used)

AFAIK chkfontpath etc. are still used if fontconfig is not available.

>> On Solaris, OOo looks for TTF files recursively under /usr/openwin .
>[...]
>> For Solaris, that is no good. Japanese users never use Korean, Chinese
>> fonts nor other ethnic ones in general, but OOo on Solaris unexpectedly
>> find all font files under /usr/openwin and occupies the pulldown menu
>> of fonts with the fonts that never be used. Uninstalling the packages
>> related to such ethnic fonts, however, harms the stability of Sun Java
>> Desktop system.
> 
> OK, then it seems that the list of fontdirs is not useful at all and
> either they should be removed completely or configurable.

Or file an issue for PL to search only in the locale specific font paths...

>> Additionally, on Solaris 9 and 10 with OOo 2.0.3, artificial bold and/or
>> italic rendering system works improperly. Specifying bold and/or italic
>> typeface on Japanese characters results in finding other ethnic font
>> files. See issue 67167, issue 67197, and issue 65173.
> 
> Then these are bugs again that should not be hidden by manual
> font-overrides.

Yup. I'll look into these issues.

>> > No - see VCL.xcu. There are already several language-specific
>> > replacement lists.
>> > If you want to improve that list, file an issue and provide the fonts
>> > that should be used instead.

Yes. On the other hand I outlined above the unmaintainability of VCL.xcu in
its current format. And considering the the immense efforts that QA has to
do to test scenarios which are impacted by a VCL.xcu change, modifications
in this area require so much more effort and time than just editing a few
font names.

If only issue 68846 (VCL.xcu format change) was ready...

>> >>  - Virtual font name
>> >> [...]
>> >>    The virtual font names would be Arial, Courier, Helvetica,
>> >>    Times,... for Western, Mincho, Gothic, PMincho (Proportional one),
>> >>    PGothic for CJK,... and so on.
>> > 
>> > Bad idea IMHO. What would that be good for anyway?
>> > OOo doesn't ship fonts, so these documents will look different on every
>> > computer, depending on the fonts installed.
>> 
>> Different look among different platforms is unacceptable in the Japanese
>> office suite market. The broken text layout due to lack of font
>> availability is ranked in the top 10 reasons why users hesitate to
>> migrate from Microsoft Office on Windows to OpenOffice.org on other
>> platforms.

What can be done to display a font exactly the same as on the originator's
computer, if the font is just not available? I think fallbacks are the best
solution to this unsolvable problem.

> You would not be able to prevent the documents from looking differently
> when the fonts are not installed. You need the same fonts on every
> computer that should display the document.

Unfortunately this is the only real solution.

> I still think that modifying the internal font-fallback list with that
> info is the better approach

+1

[...many other interesting points snipped...] 
--
Herbert

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