Hi, all
>On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:11:56 -0800, Louis Suarez-Potts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >OOo is moves at glacial speed. Any new idea is shot upon sight. I >> >spend great effort trying to contribute, but my efforts are for >> >naught. Even the simplest change has to be fought tooth and nail over >> >the course of several months. Frustration is evident everywhere, I see >> >it every day, it gets discussed all the time. As someone recently >> >said, fork is in the air. >> >> Think of it in these terms. Some ideas are better then others. > >Whoa Louis. Calm down. Include people instead of insulting them. >Nobody here wants to push Daniel away from the project with all that >he starts. We lost a good resource in Sam Hiser last time I saw you >snubbing like this. Remember we are all on the same side. Did I come across as insulting Daniel? or anyone else? I am sorry if I did. That was hardly my intention. It was rather to directly oppose what I saw as an injustice. I am fully cognizant of the many good things that Daniel proposes. And as to Sam: I didn't snub him. In case you forget, he was removed by the CC for doing a terrible job as project lead. He was also not a "visionary" leader as you thought. Or perhaps I missed something. (Do not make the mistake of representing my efforts to salvage this project from Sam as somehow a rejection of a fine leader. Or, if you do wish to do that, show some facts.) My point regarding Daniel's point is simple: A lot of the ideas proposed here and elsewhere have consequences that need evaluation. Yes there is sometimes frustration. We *all* experience that. That is the natural process in a collaborative environment: discussion, some argument, etc. OOo is not about resolving one's frustration. It is about furthering the development and growth of a huge community in which there are many voices. [snip] >You really want to know why I am starting the NL-EN project now? >Because of the high level of frustration I've seen and heard in trying >to do anything novel or grassroots on the MP and other lists. An >NL-EN would allow me to immediately create something like >http://en.openoffice.org/authors for Daniel if he proposed that >project, or http://en.openoffice.org/businesscards or anything else of >the kind. The idea is that once a small project is started, people >can offer constructive criticism, all they can do before that is kill >it in endless debate. Well, the NLC discussion should be on NLC. And, this not a trial of Daniel. But I find the claim that there is frustration at grassroots interesting, for it seems to be included in the existing structure and has worked quite well. Ryan, if you want to do grassroots (not sure what you mean) marketing, then do it. What is stopping you? Look at Bob Kerr with his libraries work; or Ian with schools; or Christian with his amazing general work. So, to clear up the mystery, do us the courtesy of naming the obstacles you have encountered. > >I guess what I'm trying to say is that the experience I hear about >from multiple people is that innovation is only welcome if suggested >by a project lead, so I decided to go back to my proposal for a NL-EN >that was so well received when I originally sent it to encourage more >low level innovation our efforts up front, so that constructive >criticism could replace ineffective stultifying debate. Not so. Do you think Bob, Christian, are project leads? Is Elizabeth? are so many of the Marcons? This project accepts and rewards "member" work. And let's not forget your work with the Mozilla project. Were you are a project lead? No. Were you encumbered in any way? No. Were you aided? yes. Put another way, and this goes to the new members of this list: A lot has been done by the members of the MP. A lot needs to be done right now. Good ideas that can be implemented are rewarded, at least in credit. But not all ideas can be. Cheers Louis > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
