Hi,
Apologies for top-posting, I hardly manage to follow all this thread's fight.
I do not understand one thing:
Why are people neglecting the current To-Do's which exist in every project they participate and instead jump to propose only changes to existing work ?
It's been a looooong time since I have seen a message here saying "I want to do Task No NN from the To-Do list. Can anybody guide me ?".
===== And some thoughts:
A project has a general strategy which has not been built easily (MP surely has one).
A project has a mission from which that strategy derrives.
The strategy is put into a plan and that results in a TO-DO list.
What are the chances to achieve the goals and fulfill that mission if nobody tries to enroll first in doing the TO-DO list's tasks ?
Medium therm re-evaluations can show needed plan changes and long therm evaluations show the needs for strategy changes. But after that you get back to adjusting the To-Do and after that you start working to one or several tasks.
Anybody can easily discard what others have built and come with a new to-do list and strategy. But where will this lead ? Will it lead to order ? A clear move ahead of the community ? Progress ? I doubd!
How many years you think such a community will live ?
This is why a huge community like OOo needs a clear process when approving changes. Think again... there are thousands of members.
What if they all wished to implement their own strategy at once instead of taking a task and put their fingerprint on it and on how well it is done ?
Frustration comes when you want to see immediate changes, and I feel it may also come when you cannot show to your friends and relatives: "Hey, I did that". But how does it feel when the next day somebody else comes and want to change the same thing having a better idea after he/she sat and lurked at how you did it ?
Ah, you have new things to propose that were not in the To-Do ?
OK, see if this does not contradict with the strategy and then fight for your cause so that you see them added to the To-Do and then try to find members who would like to help you in accomplishing the task. Isn't this the right way ?
And another question and I am off this subject:
How would you feel if you were to manage this Community for a single day and how would you keep the overal direction of this ship straight ?
(This is a question for those who have been around long enough)
:-)
Hope for the best, Cristian
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
Hi, all
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:11:56 -0800, Louis Suarez-Potts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OOo is moves at glacial speed. Any new idea is shot upon sight. I spend great effort trying to contribute, but my efforts are for naught. Even the simplest change has to be fought tooth and nail
over
the course of several months. Frustration is evident everywhere, I
see
it every day, it gets discussed all the time. As someone recently said, fork is in the air.
Think of it in these terms. Some ideas are better then others.
Whoa Louis. Calm down. Include people instead of insulting them. Nobody here wants to push Daniel away from the project with all that
he starts. We lost a good resource in Sam Hiser last time I saw you
snubbing like this. Remember we are all on the same side.
Did I come across as insulting Daniel? or anyone else? I am sorry if I did. That was hardly my intention. It was rather to directly oppose what I saw as an injustice.
I am fully cognizant of the many good things that Daniel proposes. And as to Sam: I didn't snub him. In case you forget, he was removed by the CC for doing a terrible job as project lead. He was also not a "visionary" leader as you thought. Or perhaps I missed something. (Do not make the mistake of representing my efforts to salvage this project from Sam as somehow a rejection of a fine leader. Or, if you do wish to do that, show some facts.)
My point regarding Daniel's point is simple: A lot of the ideas proposed here and elsewhere have consequences that need evaluation. Yes there is sometimes frustration. We *all* experience that. That is the natural process in a collaborative environment: discussion, some argument, etc. OOo is not about resolving one's frustration. It is about furthering the development and growth of a huge community in which there are many voices.
[snip]
You really want to know why I am starting the NL-EN project now? Because of the high level of frustration I've seen and heard in trying
to do anything novel or grassroots on the MP and other lists. An
NL-EN would allow me to immediately create something like
http://en.openoffice.org/authors for Daniel if he proposed that
project, or http://en.openoffice.org/businesscards or anything else of
the kind. The idea is that once a small project is started, people
can offer constructive criticism, all they can do before that is kill
it in endless debate.
Well, the NLC discussion should be on NLC. And, this not a trial of
Daniel.
But I find the claim that there is frustration at grassroots interesting, for it seems to be included in the existing structure and has worked quite well. Ryan, if you want to do grassroots (not sure what you mean) marketing, then do it. What is stopping you? Look at Bob Kerr with his libraries work; or Ian with schools; or Christian with his amazing general work. So, to clear up the mystery, do us the courtesy of naming the obstacles you have encountered.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the experience I hear about
from multiple people is that innovation is only welcome if suggested
by a project lead, so I decided to go back to my proposal for a NL-EN that was so well received when I originally sent it to encourage more low level innovation our efforts up front, so that constructive criticism could replace ineffective stultifying debate.
Not so. Do you think Bob, Christian, are project leads? Is Elizabeth?
are so many of the Marcons? This project accepts and rewards "member"
work. And let's not forget your work with the Mozilla project. Were you
are a project lead? No. Were you encumbered in any way? No. Were you
aided? yes.
Put another way, and this goes to the new members of this list: A lot has been done by the members of the MP. A lot needs to be done right now. Good ideas that can be implemented are rewarded, at least in credit. But not all ideas can be.
Cheers
Louis
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-- Cristian DRIGA -- www.openoffice.org ro.openoffice.org marketing.openoffice.org/art/
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