Hello James, James Walker wrote:
> >> >> As a MarCon, he/she has certain deeds and rights. As a person, he/she is >> free as in speech of course. >> A MarCon can do some local PR but has to work in coordination with the >> Marketing project. >> In this regard, were Ryan, as a WestCoast-USA MarCon, to attend the DLS >> and have a booth there, I think he should at least notify the Marketing >> Project. But what I don't understand, and I know I'll make people angry >> in writing this, is that when it comes to the US the community (or part >> of it) is for some reason unable to think reasonably. Why, oh why, did >> Ryan want to represent OOo, get some funding from the community, >> represent the OD Fellowship and maybe even more entities to an event >> that was seen as problematic as early as last year, while at the same >> time putting Linspire people, Bob Sutor, and Simon Phipps in copy of his >> mail? > > This is what I think > > Ryan copied Heather at Linspire because she is the one that keeps > calling him and trying to set something up. Then I think that the folks at Linspire should understand that there is a certain level of "questionability"when it comes to the DLS. That's imho a rather neutral view of looking at these things. > Simon was copied because I beleve he went last year and Ryan wanted to > know if he wants to go again. And so what? I also met Simon several times and I don't copy him every time I'm talking to somebody at Sun or stand at an OOo booth... > > >> He first went to them before even knowing what the OOo cmmunity >> would do with this. What do all these people have to do with this >> decison? What does Bob Sutor and Simon Phipps have to do with Linspire? >> Next time I'll hand up an OOo poster, I'll make sure to send Johnatan >> Schwartz a mail reporting on this... >> In any NL project, the community/representatives collect money locally >> or do without, set a booth, print the documents listed on the MP website >> or translated inside the NL project and post a nice comment about it on >> the list. >> >> > collecting money for a NL project that does not exist is not possible > for english countries, we do not have a NL project. > it would be nice to get one started though. First of all, the NL projects'leads have voted against such a project not a long time ago. Second, a Native-Lang project doesn't represent countries, it represents languages. Since english is the language spoken here inside the Marketing project, I guess you(as a group) should seize the opportunity to see it as a great space to work not just at the OOo marketing but also on a local scale (USA-Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, etc.) > >> Unfortunately, this list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] has been the place for >> incompetence, endless chats, pathological inability to understand what >> OOo is all about and, for that matter, one of the most useless mailing >> lists in the entire FOSS history. The only thing that happened in >> *months*, if I remember well here is Bernhard Dipphold's vote on the OOo >> slogan >> The very sad part about this is that there are a bunch of good people >> inside the Marketing project. They are working on PR, on the Newsletter, >> on strategy, etc. They keep doing their job voluntarily, and notice, >> they do it in a consensual and non conflictual way. They do not dance >> around what the To-Do's list like the great marketing experts some >> others pretend to be. >> >> > > I agree, there are some great minded people in the Marketing Project, > but some of those feel like what they would like to see happen is not > being allowed to happen. maybe not intentionally but it is happening. Please, James, don't come to me with that stance about the nasty people oppressing the nice volunteers who are blocked in their angelical intent to do things. This is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. Once again, I just don't understand why on this very list, processes are seemingly flawed for almost everything. > >> And you want to know what's even sadder? Nobody gives a damn about >> what's going on about the OOo development, and should I say, not even >> about marketing. While we are talking, do you even realize we're having >> problems for releasing the 2.0.1? Do you know that a huge number of >> issues waits to be verified and/or closed? You don't need to be a >> developper for this, far from that. So the only thing I have to say here >> is: stop chit-chatting and get back to work. >> >> > I would love to help out on some of this, but I am finding Issuezilla > to be a pain to wade through, I tried downloading the source, could > not get that to work right either. I will try again with both this > weekend. Well, if you're not at ease with IssueZilla, then you should take a look at the Marketing Project's To Do's list. It may suit your skills (and your time ressources) more. Also don't forget that any FOSS project involves at some point a learning curve. It doesn't have to be steep, but there is one volunteers have to follow unless they are already skilled. > >> All this is not the fault of the "OOo bureaucracy" as some tend to >> explain. It is the fault of people who imho have nothing to do here. >> Other comments inline. >> >> >>> Then the following problems present themselves. Most MarCons have a >>> Native Language project that helps them do things, some of these >>> discussions happen on the list for that language, The US and UK do not >>> have a Native Language project. so all discussions with those areas >>> happen on the main marketing list. By doing so the whole community >>> tries to decide whether or not something is appropriate for the US or >>> UK MarCons to do. >>> >> >> >> Well, same for the NL projects. Do you think that chinese volunteers and >> MarCons do not talk among themselves (knowing that the Chinese community >> encompasses PRC, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and the diaspora)? >> >> >> >> >>> This seems to always spark heated conversations between several people >>> (most of these are about DLS, mainly because it is sponsored by >>> Linspire, though attendded by several companies) >>> Personally I do not think that a MarCon needs permission to attend a >>> Conference in there country, after all they were picked to represent >>> the community already. >>> >> >> >> James, I'm sorry to tell you this: Marketing needs coordination and >> communication. You can't do anything you want with OOo's public image. >> I'm sure Ryan understands now that acting as he did was unwise. >> >> > I am not saying that this should not be reported back to the Marketing > Project, but to feel like you need permission to gather people and > make a presence at a conference that is in your area should not > happen. I see all the time that on of the MarCons from another region > went to a conference and then they talk about what they did and how > things went. That is the first time you hear anything about it on the > Marketing List, nothing before, just what happened and how things > went. That is what should happen. It is not the first time, but let me phrase it again: things go as you describe them for other MarCons, indeed. But they, thanks to some common sense that seems to be missing around here, do not fool around by sending a message putting everybody in front of the "fait accompli" by representing OOo, the fellowship, the Ingots, Toshiba Inc. and putting in copy the IBM and Sun stars to an event that has stirred quite a bit of (legitimate) controversy. I'm rather tired by this "Merchants of the Temple" approach of marketing. > >> >> >>> This is just how I see it, If I am totally wrong someone, I am sure, >>> will correct me and put me in my place. >>> >> >> >> It's not about "putting you in your place". I'm sincerely sorry to see >> such things happen. Also, don't take my words here personally. I'm >> frustrated by all this and seriously consider to unsubscribe myself >> >> >> from this list. >> >> > I do not take offense to a good discussion, I would like to really > know how other people feel things should go. I too have thought about > just taking myself off the Marketing Project, but hopefully we can > sort some things out. > > Just to summorize, what I think Ryan should be able to do is go to the > conference and represent OOo as a MarCon. > If he can get the volunteers to go and run a booth then he should be > able to do so. If the CC wants to send some money his way to help pay > for that then that is their decision to make, but if Ryan can find > funding in other ways and make things work, he should be able to do that. Yes, if he goes as an individual or as somebody from an organization other than OOo. Is that so much to ask or is AstroTurfing a common practice in the other side of the Atlantic? (I hadn't this impression while I was there, though). Best, Charles. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
