All this stats talk is irrelevant, McDonalds server millions of hamburgers, that fact does not make it a 5-star restaurant. My peers do not drive Lamborghinis but I'll buy one when I can afford it!
Gary On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Jan 6, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > great, more constructive feedback :-) > > Thanks Jason > > > > Both projects are well known and widely used even if log4j v2 is younger > > with less downloads such figures are not really representative with all > > caches/repositories managers I think. > > > > I don’t have a single peer that uses Log4j2 and that’s important to me. I > do not believe Log4J2 is well known or widely use. I think 3 years of > releases is fairly representative in that Logback is getting close to the > Log4J incoming edge count and if you remove all the incoming edges from > Apache there are not a lot of users. > > > About logback vs log4j I have really no real preference technically > > speaking (I had both branches working in the past and used them a lot in > my > > professional life - http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/). > > > > In term of community, Log4J is in our apache community and we have few > > active committers arround. On Logback side even if I really appreciate > Ceki > > I'm always afraid about this one-man show project. (and Ceki isn't > perfect > > too when we see the nightmare of slf4j-api 1.5+ incompatibilities we > always > > have in 2016 !!). > > Ceki may do more commits but it’s certainly not a one man show. 76 > contributors for Logback and 8 contributors for Log4J2. It’s stable and > mature at this point with 54 releases versus 33 for Log4J2. I don’t think > any person responsible for picking a package for logging would get much > support in their organization for Log4J2, as the data would suggest. I > think with few contributors and usage it would likely be deemed a less wise > choice than Logback and possibly a risk. There are also lots of Apache > projects that use Logback. I think pragmatism is a factor in all the other > projects at Apache who selected Logback. Being at Apache obviously wasn’t > the determining criterion and it shouldn’t be. > > > I agree that we are just talking about a logging implementation but you > saw > > what it gave for eclipse/aether …. > > > > I’m not sure what your point is here. No one worked on any of the parts, > ever, whether here or at Eclipse. I doubt anyone will work on it when it > comes back. So I’m not sure what analogy you’re trying to make. > > > I'm clearly not enough involved enough in the project to try to convince > > anyone about a choice to do but I can just say that not having a > colorized > > console in 2016 is .... irritating. > > > > For the problem reported by Gary I think that applying the fix in > > > maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties > > ( > > > https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 > > ) > > is safe to be back-ported in master. It is just that > > org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactorywas for Log4J 1 AFAIU and now that > > Log4J2 is release/stabilized there is a new one : > > org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory > > > > If I asked Ceki for help I’d get it immediately also. Who isn’t going to > help there to get their library bundled with Maven? > > > For the replacement of the implementation and activate colors I prefer to > > let active committers decide of what they are doing (I imagine that for > any > > choice they are doing it doesn't avoid you to use another one in your own > > distribution ? > > > > I would prefer log4j2 but clearly I never merged it because of the slf4j > > conflict that I don't understand (but I didn't spend a lot of time on it) > > > > To me the most important factor is usage, of course you need some > threshold of developers so that people are working on it but even there I’d > say it’s pretty sparse in Log4J2. But with widespread usage comes > examination, issue submissions, pull requests and ultimately more people > that contribute and that’s clearly the case with Logback. I don’t see how > you can logically refute that and see Log4J2 a better choice because of > what organization it’s developed within? Logback has a community it just > doesn’t happen to be here, and Ceki's not some random guy. He also has a > long track record of open source dedication and contribution. > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> These are the numbers I arrived at, happy to run them with different > >> coordinates but thought these were representative: > >> > >> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'log4j:log4j').inE.count() > >> ==>84570 > >> > >> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'ch.qos.logback:logback-classic').inE.count() > >> ==>62389 > >> > >> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'org.apache.logging.log4j:log4j-core').inE.count() > >> ==>3134 > >> > >> These are incoming edges across all versions of said coordinate. > >> > >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> As we said previously when the the question arose again there would be > a > >> discussion. You may not remember, but I expect there to be a discussion. > >>> > >>> I have built a graph of Maven Central to analyze the rank (count of all > >> incoming edges) for Log4J2 and Logback and it is clear from those > numbers > >> that everyone has gone from Log4J to Logback. What has happened, I > believe > >> from the numbers, is that the community followed the founder of the > project > >> and not the owner project in pretty much the exact same way users went > with > >> Jenkins and not Hudson. Anyone is happy to take the graph and verify > this > >> themselves, or generate their own data from the machine that is housing > the > >> copy of Maven Central at Google. > >>> > >>> Additionally Igor has an implementation for logging during concurrent > >> builds based on Logback that I would really like to use, and the color > >> logging is also easy with Logback. I do not want to use something that > the > >> community at large has not adopted. > >>> > >>> Again, anyone is welcome to the code and/or the data if they want to > >> verify this themselves. > >>> > >>> I also am not interested in a debate so if we disagree then just leave > >> the simple implementation in place. I’m not philosophically motivated > much > >> here in these discussions but I’m vehemently opposed to integrating > Log4J2. > >>> > >>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:55 AM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> thanks for this valuable comment Jason :( > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> -1 > >>>>> > >>>>> Do not merge this branch. > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 4:05 AM, Tibor Digana <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Arnaud, > >>>>>> Do you plan a Release Version to merge this branch o master in > Maven? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Arnaud Héritier [via Maven] < > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Just because only 2.4 was available when I updated this feature > >> branch > >>>>> few > >>>>>>> months ago. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Le mardi 5 janvier 2016, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] > >>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=0>> a écrit : > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thank you for the update. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Why not update the Log4j 2 dep from 2.4 to 2.5? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gary > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email] > >>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=1> > >>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi Gary, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I fixed this in the branch : > >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/maven/commits/slf4j-log4j2.4 > >>>>>>>>> The fix is in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ( > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 > >>>>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>> It is the update I did after my old blog post : > >>>>>>>>> http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> BR > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] > >>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=2> > >>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi All, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Happy Holidays. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Can the next version of Maven be rid of this warning: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> [WARN] The SLF4J binding actually used is not supported by > Maven: > >>>>>>>>>> org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory > >>>>>>>>>> [WARN] Maven supported bindings are: > >>>>>>>>>> [WARN] (from > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > jar:file:/E:/Java/apache-maven-3.3.9/bin/../lib/maven-embedder-3.3.9.jar!/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - ch.qos.logback.classic.LoggerContext > >>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactory > >>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.impl.SimpleLoggerFactory > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Is there a step I am missing to use Log4j 2 cleanly? My steps > are > >>>>>>> here: > >>>>>>>>>> > >> https://garygregory.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/watch-maven-in-color/ > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] > >>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=3> > >> <javascript:;> > >>>>> | [hidden > >>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=4> > >>>>>>>> <javascript:;> > >>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > >>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition < > http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ > >>> > >>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > >>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ > >>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> ----- > >>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier > >>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net > >>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com > >>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] > >>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=5> > >> <javascript:;> > >>>>> | [hidden > >>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=6> > >>>>>>>> <javascript:;> > >>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > >>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > >>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ > > > >>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > >>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > >>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ > >>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> ----- > >>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier > >>>>>>> http://aheritier.net > >>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com > >>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>>>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the > >> discussion > >>>>>>> below: > >>>>>>> > >> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Log4j-Warning-tp5856237p5857870.html > >>>>>>> To start a new topic under Maven Developers, email > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from Maven Developers, click here > >>>>>>> < > >>>>> > >> > http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=142166&code=dGlib3JkaWdhbmFAYXBhY2hlLm9yZ3wxNDIxNjZ8LTI4OTQ5MjEwMg== > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> . > >>>>>>> NAML > >>>>>>> < > >>>>> > >> > http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> View this message in context: > >>>>> > http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Log4j-Warning-tp5856237p5857942.html > >>>>>> Sent from the Maven Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Jason > >>>>> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven > >>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> > >>>>> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> ----- > >>>> Arnaud Héritier > >>>> http://aheritier.net > >>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com > >>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Jason > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Jason van Zyl > >>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven > >>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jason > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> Jason van Zyl > >> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven > >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >> --------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > ----- > > Arnaud Héritier > > http://aheritier.net > > Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com > > Twitter/Skype : aheritier > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder, Takari and Apache Maven > http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > http://twitter.com/takari_io > --------------------------------------------------------- > > {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > -- E-Mail: [email protected] | [email protected] Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! 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